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willie92708
User Rank
Silver
Re: Odd ethics
willie92708   5/19/2014 11:50:47 AM
The most likely reason for water in alcohol / gasoline blends is because ethanol is super hydoscopic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygroscopy  It's impossilbe to keep ethanol pure unless the containers and transfer systems are air tight.  It will "suck" water right out of the air and quickly take on a few percent water.  Even Everclear is only 190 proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everclear_(alcohol)

Willie

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Charging Stations.
CharlesM   5/19/2014 10:04:25 AM
NO RATINGS
Maybe Ralphy Boy would only own an EV if he could pay only $30k AND get free fuel for life. Yet doesn't mind spending $25-30k for an ICE, plus $2k per year to maintain the peer comfort of oil addiction.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Odd ethics
CharlesM   5/19/2014 9:52:25 AM
NO RATINGS
Sorry, I still don't follow. Where does the water come from that one is buying? I would presume the alcohol portion of the E10 fuel is pure, i.e., 200 proof. If you're not alleging otherwise, where is the water?

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Odd ethics
William K.   5/17/2014 4:51:15 PM
Charlews M. My assertion is that when 10% alcohol is added to standard gasoline that it then becomes possible to disolve up to about 10% water in the mixture. That is the principle behind products used to alleviate the gas line freezing that used to be a problem when water would separate from the gas and freeze in the line. That is fine if one intends to remove water from the fuel tank, but if one is purchasing gas then it is undesirable to be paying gasoline prices for water.

As an alternative explanation, the alcohol will allow water and gasoline to mix, up to about 10% water, when 10% alcohol has been added.

It is entirely possible that water is also found inn the E85 blend, since it contains alcohol as well.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Odd ethics
William K.   5/17/2014 4:51:15 PM
NO RATINGS
Charlews M. My assertion is that when 10% alcohol is added to standard gasoline that it then becomes possible to disolve up to about 10% water in the mixture. That is the principle behind products used to alleviate the gas line freezing that used to be a problem when water would separate from the gas and freeze in the line. That is fine if one intends to remove water from the fuel tank, but if one is purchasing gas then it is undesirable to be paying gasoline prices for water.

As an alternative explanation, the alcohol will allow water and gasoline to mix, up to about 10% water, when 10% alcohol has been added.

It is entirely possible that water is also found inn the E85 blend, since it contains alcohol as well.

weapon
User Rank
Gold
Re: Charging Stations.
weapon   5/16/2014 2:40:23 PM
I think you are misunderstanding the purpose of superchargers. The point of superchargers is that long distance travel that 0.1% of the time over 200 miles. By the time the Gen 3 comes out superchargers will cover 98% of the country.

For every day driving, you charge at home waking up every morning with 100% range. Can you find your home past all those convenience store gas pumps? If not you have bigger issues to worry about.

Ralphy Boy
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Charging Stations.
Ralphy Boy   5/16/2014 2:16:27 PM
NO RATINGS
I'll have to start making note of all the ready and waiting (super) charging stations... I must be looking right past them. Either that or they are being blocked from sight by all the convenience store gas pumps.

So no, I wont be paying $30k for an EV at anytime from the way it looks right now.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: cost is only part of the EV problem
CharlesM   5/16/2014 10:08:37 AM
NO RATINGS
I'm not sure it's smart to shut down an engine during coasting, if that's what you're talking about. In fact it used to be illegal to do so and AFAIK it still is. There are engines that shut down cylinders under light loads, but they don't make huge gains in MPG either. And certainly not compared to a real hybrid.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Re: Odd ethics
CharlesM   5/16/2014 10:02:00 AM
NO RATINGS
WilliamK, we are finally in agreement, except maybe for the last couple of statements. Are you alleging that alcohol is watered down prior to mixing it with gas, so that E10 is actually 90 parts gas, 9 parts alcohol, and 1 part water? That sounds just scandalous. Any links on this?

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: cost is only part of the EV problem
William K.   5/15/2014 11:39:55 PM
NO RATINGS
CM, under the best of conditions all that the engine would do would be to accelerate the vehicle. That is the type of driving that I amin favor of, which is to say that the traffic would roll right along. This is far more than what is being touted, which is only stopping the engine fo long delaiys, typically traffic lights. There would not be much savings over open road conditions, but in the city traffic  at it's worst it could add value.

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