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What common item already has a basic rfid signature?

Cloths so they can't be taken out of the store.

Iron

What technology in use today projects a virtual presence powerful enough to kill?

The predetor drone.

Iron

Viewing from archive

Iron

looking forward to today's live presentation.

Iron

archives for me today.

Iron

Thanks all. One of the best sessions.

 

Iron

@78RPM


My iPhoen will indeed call home if I yell, funny isn't it. OTOH I came across folks who have more clues but consciously rejected it.

 

Iron

@78RPM

She was right about the battery!

Funny story.

 

Iron

@olyh01 When we left Hawaii and retired into the forest of Montana on 2006, my wife got her first cell phone. I showed her how to open the slide case "Don't use both !!!, ahem sweetie. You just use your thumb and slide it like this, see?" I told her to speak to it to call home.  She looked at me with stink eye and yelled "Call home."  I told her not to speak rudely to it or its feelings would be hurt.  The first time she left the house I asked if her cell phone was on.  "But doesn't that run down the battery?" she asked.

Gold

@rbernas - We aren't using the "points system" anymore. The IEEE PDH took the place of that. You can click on the blue ribbon above to view the requirements for the hours and how it all works. Let me know if you have any more questions.

@olyh01 Here's a funny story.  I'll finish typing in another post. Stay tuned.

Gold

>>>Hermits and Misanthropes should have a right to go off grid.<<<

Sometimes too much technology alienates people. People who don't use cell phone are not necessarily Misanthropes or Hermits. I sincerely appreciate all the insights you shared with us but not this view.

 

 

 

Iron

Thanks Jon, Jennifer and Digikey

Iron

Thanks Jon, Jennifer and DK

Iron

>>>AGREE

It is how we use the technology, not the technology itself that matters.

Many technologies are there ready. too many barriers, legal, cost, selfish pools and so on<<<

 

@jamal

Did you mean selfish fools? Sorry, but I smell a bit of arrogance.

 

 
 
Iron

@StephMcGUBM, btw, how are points determined per course?

Iron

thanks StephMcGUBM, but i figured it out already

Iron
@rbernas - I can assist you with that. Email me at Stephaney.McGinnis@ubm.com about checking info for your courses attended. I am the Project Manager for this program.

Thank you all -- Hope you will attend tomorrow -- Jon

 

Iron
@78RPM - We did a course on SCADA security last December. It is titled "Introduction to SCADA Security" and was taught by Clint Bodungen. You can view it in the semester 4 archive area.

 

Thanks Jhon, Ives and all. Very interesting talk.

Iron

Very interesting subject/discussion.  Thanks Jon, Jennifer, and Digikey.

Iron

Just try and get goverments to agree on frequency assignment!!

Iron

Thanks again Jon and Jennifer.

?? Why the difference in RFID freq. operation? Aren't we going global?

I think readers will be able to do both ranges. It does partition tags into global regions. This can make searches in data bases  faster.

Iron

@fred45: Each country has it's own spectrum allocation rules

Iron

?? is it to keep countries different in RF domain?

Iron

As I understand it, "taggants" are being used and have been used to some extent. These are tiny traceable materials added to things like gun powder. I've heard of it being added to other materials, though I can't recall which. The idea is that after some criminal/terrorist act, the trace materials could be traced through the supply chain. These are physical materials, rather than RFID tags. But perhaps RFID will become so small that they too could be included in bulk materials.

 

There are also very specific molecules that can be added to chemicals that allow it to be traced.

We can determine for example, what brand fertilizer was used to make an explosive.

 

Iron

>>>

But - at the same token, 300 schoolgirls could not be kidnapped if they could all be found using drones and rfid and implants.

 

It is how we use the technology, not the technology itself that matters.<<<

 

You mean if only we had tagged those girls? Did you consider the kidnappers could have use the same technology to do 'inventory control', could they not have?

Iron

?? Why the difference in RFID freq. operation? Aren't we going global?

Iron

@tomgrey9999 Thank you for the link

Gold

AGREE

It is how we use the technology, not the technology itself that matters.

Many technologies are there ready. too many barriers, legal, cost, selfish pools and so on

Iron

Thank you Digi-Key, Design News and Jon for a thought-provoking series!

Iron

just FYI, I used RFID readers from Alien (alientechnology.com), they have some useful info for those interested.  A bit of irony in their name me thinks.

As I understand it, "taggants" are being used and have been used to some extent. These are tiny traceable materials added to things like gun powder. I've heard of it being added to other materials, though I can't recall which. The idea is that after some criminal/terrorist act, the trace materials could be traced through the supply chain. These are physical materials, rather than RFID tags. But perhaps RFID will become so small that they too could be included in bulk materials.

Iron

??? Is there a certain frequency range that RFID devices operate at?

Gen II is UHF

 

865-868 MHz (Europe)
902-928 MHz (North

 

Iron

Interesting session. Thanks, Jon, Jennifer et al.

Iron

@Jennifer, It sounds like this class generated interest in a class on security.
Time to bring back Warren Miller for a class on SCADA? It was more technical.
Others: check archived classes for 12/02/2013 on Protecting Embedded Systems.

Gold

The other day Washington Post had a news story about a Liddite that went missing and could not be tracked (foudn dead sometime later) because he did not use email, cell phone. Don't know it that was condemnation or not. We should be able to choose to keep some decent privacy at the risk of not being found.

 

-- I agree -- Hermits and Misanthropes should have a right to go off grid.

 

But - at the same token, 300 schoolgirls could not be kidnapped if they could all be found using drones and rfid and implants.

 

It is how we use the technology, not the technology itself that matters.

 

Iron

??? Is there a certain frequency range that RFID devices operate at?

Iron

The NRA would never allow RFiD chips to be included in the manufacturing process, but it could be an aftermarket item that individuals could elect to add.

Iron

@Jennifer, is there a way to check completion of previous classes taken?

Iron

Thanks again. this is so iinteresting.

active RFID with a transmitter can do several miles in open air

 

-- There was a Darpa grant to make a reader that could reach 100 yards. The more power you pump out and the better you make your receiver, the longer distance can be read.

 

 

 

Iron

@StephT: Cool! That makes 3 of us. Montreal power!  :-)

Iron

hmm, my tinfoil hat is just not enough these days

It would be good for guns to have rfid tags so they could be detected when trying to bring them to school

 

-- That could be a good use of RFID in all new weapons. It may be circumvented with shileding though.

 

There we go -- we need lead lined clothing :)

 

Iron

active RFID with a transmitter can do several miles in open air

The other day Washington Post had a news story about a Liddite that went missing and could not be tracked (foudn dead sometime later) because he did not use email, cell phone. Don't know it that was condemnation or not. We should be able to choose to keep some decent privacy at the risk of not being found.

Iron

Is the range of RFI sutable for long range ID

Iron

Movies show us scenarios of dystopian rebels in twisted futures. It's happening for real.

Iron

@cghaba  great idea for good use of the technology!

Iron

I don't think there is any RFID in US money.  The plastic strips are only plastic strips.

ANswer to question 3 -- We are consumers but we are all producers of this

commodity -- what is it?

 

Data -- We produce data with everything we do. For some reason, everyone wants that data.

Iron

@cpu, I agree with your comments about this course. Less technical than a course on SCADA but still useful.

Gold

Thanks tomgrey9999. That's an interesting use of passive tech. Ironically, the same parents having a fit about the scanners probably allow their kids to carry traceable cell phones.

Iron

If we are relying on governments or any human institution for ethical or moral rules and guidelines for controlling access to data, we are all doomed.

Iron

@CPU - I feel the same way about the course.  It's not what I was expecting, but I have enjoyed it thus far. 

All US money of higher denominations have strips.

Iron

  Hello

 

Late Check in

Iron

Information on cell phones and cancer risk can be found at http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/cellphones

Iron

??? Outside of crawling under a rock, how can we detach ourselves from this constant invasion of privacy.

 

I don't think we can. Drones, satellites, tags, -- we are all in a big cage.

Iron

Thank you Gabay and Campbell

I had not thought about RFID in money, Jon, until you mentioned it. I do recall seeing some $100s with chips at a fundraiser.

one school would not let the system be installed due to parent uproar, system is still runing in several other schools i believe.

 

I was expecting something else of this course. I expected something more technical and less philosophical than what is being discussed. Having said that, I am happy that the course has gone in the direction it has. There are so many deep and broad issues and questions.

 

We are the technology creators creating this new world (on behalf of the decision makers that just want to "help" us).

Iron

It would be good for guns to have rfid tags so they could be detected when trying to bring them to school

Iron

Much of the cell phone = tumor research is not well done.

 

Agreed there is more research that can always be done. The same is true with my comments about bees and pesticides.

 

But -- I would rather err on the side of caution while honest not motivated research takes place. We are so fragile in many ways.

 

-----

Iron

@tomgrey9999: Did the school leave the passive scanners installed or remove them?

Iron

What common item already has a basic rfid signature?

Military drones

Very good again -- The answer to What technology in use today projects a virtual presence

powerfun enought to kill -- is drones, missles, and other 'war machines'

Iron

@cpu, I saw a blog where a guy actually gives you code to hack into a drone quadracopter and take control. It's on YouTube I think.  If I find that link again I'll get back.  Not sure if I can find it  soon.

Gold

Much of the cell phone = tumor research is not well done. 

 

UAV's and Hellfire missles

 

@Yves :  I'm in Montréal too !    ;-)

Iron

@dzeez: yes, there are many ways to get around "security" issues.  Even the scanners that rely upon detecting a pulse can be outwitted by a clever "evil doer" . . .

In Taipei you can buy an EasyCard that serves as a payment and contracting medium that you use to pay for bus and subway rides, taxes, bike shares, etc.

Iron

lasers can be very powerful to kill

Iron

What technology in use today projects a virtual presence powerful enough to kill?

Excuse me but I have no idea.

??? Jon, what are your thoughts on the effects of cell phones on the human brain?

 

I believe reseacrh has determined that there is a direct link with cell phone usage and brain tumors.


I think research has also proven the effect on the hypocampus from our cell phones that weaken our immune systems by stoping the creation of mellatonin in the presence of light or rf energy.

Cell phones are handy, but -- DO NOT LET YOU KIDS FALL ASLEEP WITH A CELL PHONE NEXT TO THEIR HEADS.

 

 

 

Iron

@Carl@Cipher @JMax A more grusesome, perhaps, weakness of biometrics for sensitive applications is that if someone *REALLY* wants to get in to your house, and you have a fingerprint or iris scanner that can't easily be fooled by eg tape or a photograph, then that party who really wants to get in might go to steal your key, let's say. The advantage with keys that are non-integral parts of one's body is that they can easily be given up in such a scenario without all the blood and useful body part destruction. ":)"

(To be totally clear, that's a "smile," surrounded by very, very apologetic quotation marks.)

Iron

Another virtual presence: ON STAR.  Lock your keys and open the door with a phone call and PIN.  A university recently showed how to steal a car using ON STAR and how a hacker could lock up your brakes.  So we can open the doors, start the engine, kill the engine, and work the brakes, all for a good purpose.

Iron

Several good answers so far. Yes, RFid is used on security badges to enter buildings, checkout tages at many stores.

 

But, it is also a part of modern money. Modern currency has an RFID strip in it. If you try to go through an airport with a lot of money, they can tell exactly how much you have and where it is.

 

There is also an RFID chip in passports

 

----

 

Iron

INterestingly, more and more cars are coming equipped with DSRC to allow V2V (vehicle to vehicle) communication.  Ostensibly, this will be used for things like accident avoidance, although as Jon points out, it can be used for either good or ill.

Iron

??? I haven't seen the "difinitive answer" for the common RFID question.  None of my car key-fobs use RFID, since they have a power cell and can transmit long distances.  What were you hoping to have for the "best" answer?

Thanks Jon and Jennifer.

Iron

thanks for the presentation

Iron

I did an RFID attendance system for schools several years ago.  Uproar from parents who did not understand the technology (passive RFID ID cards with readers over school room doors) and thought their kids were exposed to every freak on the internet.  Still, there are real concerns even with passive RFID.

 

Conductance is 1/Futile !! :-)

Iron

Thanks.  Very thought provoking.

Iron

??? Jon, what are your thoughts on the effects of cell phones on the human brain?

Iron

Thanks Jon and Jennifer.

A lot to think about, today...

Iron

??? Outside of crawling under a rock, how can we detach ourselves from this constant invasion of privacy.

Iron

Good afternoon for everybody from wwsouth in Florida.

Is anyone watching 24 on FOX? Hackers found a way to hijack drones and to attack the friendly troops and civilians. Very virtual, very real.

Iron

??? Can anybody find a valid reference for the "upload and download of memories"?  I'm not convinced . .

In Michio Kaku's book, he discusses this reasearch as well as the remote control of a mouse.

He also did an interview either on the Daily show or on the Colbert Report where he discussed this.

 

 

Iron

Thank you Jon, Jennifer, and Digi-Key.
Resistance is futile. We are Borg.

Gold

Don't forget, there has been a virtual presence that could kill for many years without anyone present: mines and booby traps.

Iron

Thanks Jon and Jennifer.  Thanks everyone.

Thanks Jon and Jennifer.

Iron

Pets with embedded chips.

Iron

Thanks Jennifer and Jon!

Thanks Jon and Jennifer.

Iron

the first question: I have no idea.

Iron

Thanks Jon and Jen

.... tomorrow

Iron

RFID card for entering into the office building

 

 

Jennifer, you have lovely voice. Thanks.

Iron

Are new car keys equipped with RFID chips?

Good overview Jon.  EasyPass is an RF connection.

Iron

What technology in use today projects a virtual presence powerful enough to kill?
Artificial cardiac pacemaker

Iron

Thank you jennifer, Thank you Jon

Car keys uses RFID.

Iron

Hi All -- Please preceed all questions with ??? so i can pick them out easily.


Thanks -- jon

 

 

Iron

Thank you Jon. Another great presentation!!

Iron

I use RFID to access buildings in by work campus.

Iron

@Jon : is it bidirectional using the chat !   ;-)

Iron

Thank you Jon and Jennifer.

Thank you Jon and Jennifer.

Iron

@jon re 2nd question, enhanced IDs (driver's license / state ID) have embedded RFID

Thanks Jon and Jennifer.

Iron

Very Interesting.  Thanks.

Iron

thanks Jon and Jeniffer

Iron

Thanks Jon and Jennifer

Iron

Thanks for the good presentation.

Iron

phones, credit cards, iPass, passports

Iron

Thanks Jon, Jennifer and Digi-Key

Iron

Picture/pixel guided missiles

Iron

never heard of. drones could be

Iron

totally Star Trek, in 1,000 years:  Humans vs. Cyborgs...

Iron

Thank you Jon, for so much eye opening information

Iron

RFID card for car parking system

Iron

e-entry door keys

Iron

Jennifer, Jon,

Many thanks!

 

Iron

common RFID: credit cards

Iron

easypass toll road modules, employee access badges

 

Iron

What technology in use today projects a virtual presence powerful enough to kill?

Cyber bullying that leads to suicide all too often.

 
Iron

Drones can kill without anyone present.  As can Reagans Star Wars Project.

Iron

Wired magazine reported a couple of years ago that Drones are such a degree of telepresence that some of the remote pilots actually suffer PTSD

Gold

Virtual presence powerful enough to kill? Mother in law on cell phone.

Iron

Anti-theft tags on expensive products in retail stores.

Iron

I have read about a web site which allows you remote control of a hunting rifle set up along a deer run. Does that count as a "virtual presence powerful enough to kill?

Point of Sale devices

Iron

EZPass and store-specific payment fobs use RFID.

Iron

The tendencies of some groups to follow ideaologies without thinking puts into words one of the scariest parts of this presentation -- especially considering what is taught in our Gov't schools...

Iron

Some ID badges use RF ID.  Some automotive "keys" use RFID.

Iron

Self driving car like the Google Car?

Cell phones have NFC and GPS as well as implanting that info into unsuspecting photos.

Iron

Common RFID:  Smart cards, Metropass.

Iron

credit cards have RFIDs

Iron

Key fobs and similar devices have a sort of RFID, with added controls (buttons).

Iron

>>>What technology in use today projects a virtual presence powerful enough to kill?<<<

Wasn't there a college kid bullied to commit suicide already?

Iron

Surgeons using remote robots for sugery

Iron

Military Drones - deadly virtual presense

Retail security devices have had RFID for years.

Iron

Tollway transponders have RFID devices.

Iron

Telepresence answer: Drones

Gold

Jon's second question was: What common item already has a basic rfid signature?

My body is at work, my mind is on the beach with a nice cool drink!

Iron

@spencestan: That happens all too often. :)

Iron

Jon's question was: What technology in use today projects a virtual presence powerful enough to kill?

Virtual presence, my body is at work but my mind is somewhere else..

Iron

I enjoy power failures - board games (what are those?),  sing-alongs, etc.

But those days are gone, I'm afraid

Iron

Does snopes.com counted as a trusted source? :)

Iron

@ Jon - Slide 18 has some very telling points. The concept that a large volume of outside "shallow" stimulus prevents us from spending more time on "deep" thinking resonates with me.

>>>think of the meetings with management......  could get interesting<<<
I bet there'll be app's for emplyee's ;-)

Iron

"Head in the Clouds"    that is too funny

Iron

Here is the Borg discussion (slide 18) - the collective

Iron

I have taken courses on the brain. Early Alzheimers patients tell you that the thing they notice is that they have lost their "Self."

Gold

England is already doing "small memory manupalation". Ref: Stephen hawking's science of the future.

Iron

That, too! Scary

Iron

The Matrix is not that far...

Iron

Good its not here now, think of the meetings with management......  could get interesting.

Iron

@ Jmax I was thinking the Borg.

Robocop all over again!

Iron

??? Can anybody find a valid reference for the "upload and download of memories"?  I'm not convinced . . .

(New 5GHz cordless)

Iron

That should be stake, not steak

Gold

5 watts sounds awefully high, considering that 1 watt is enough to be uncomfortably warm

Watch harmonics of 10GHz (H2O molecule resonant frequencies!) - bathing in that sort of RF would not be good. Some cordless phones use those and people complain of headaches using cordless phones, for instance.

Iron

Didn't realize that 5 watts are generated by RF readers.

Iron

I like how you think @cpu :)

Iron

We should invest in garments that act as faraday cages.

Iron

Apple is pushing this tracking with iBeacons.

Iron

I hope the Men in Black don't come after me for saying so, but certainly there will be interest in detecting and disabling or removing such devices. Or creating substitute devices that simulate these devices to provide bogus info...

Iron

Great popups everywhere you go.

 

Iron

I think we are on slide 13.

Iron

I take it we are on slide 13

Iron

Then is the idea to disable the Gen II tag at the POS?

Iron

I thought it was FUD, as in Elmer.

Gen 3 will be I hope eatable and biodegradable.

Iron

@ wsequeira - no denying it, but I feel that a large number of disparate interests, using the same technology, have much greater potential for misuse of that kind of information.

Hi all got here late

Iron

Microsoft made a fortune with FDU fear, danger, uncertainty.

Now we live Mega scale FDU.

Iron

@Kevin... there is an intrinsic link between privte corporate power and political use of law.

Iron

Sometimes fear is your best line of defence - if something doesn't feel right...

Iron

I don't think the constitution ever supported the tracking of private citizens, even if we have nothing to hide.

Iron

I think the worse potential for abuse of universal ID chips may be in the private sector rather than from Government.

@wsequeira *recent* EMF medical studies?:

I'm not worried about any non-ionizing radiation; anything below UltraViolet light.

I agree with Carl@CipherEngineering

When you're are cokked you're cooked!

Iron

@dzeez - asking, as I haven't heard anything recently either.

Iron

@wsequeira *recent* EMF medical studies? Do you know of such, or are you asking? (I'm vaguely familiar with the not-terribly-recent ones wrt eg microwave heating & 2.4GHz/cataracts/etc, but haven't heard anything in quite some time.)

Iron

@Carl@Cipher - very true (never thought of that!)

Iron

If you are using biometrics and the biometric information is stolen, you can't just get a new password.  There is no way to delete that information and get a "new account" that has a different biometric value.

Most chip cards are wireless-enabled

Iron

IMHO, smart card chips are more easily copied through-the-air than mag strips.

Iron

What is done by man can be undone by man. The same with security systems.

Iron

I don't see how that is political.  It's unfortunately how the world seems to work

Iron

Getting a little political here.

Iron

Signign in from COS!

Iron

Anyone familiar with recent medical studies related to EMF/wireless exposure?

Iron

Hello @rblouin! I think we are the only 2 guys from Montreal.

Iron

Hello everyone from CA

Hello from sunny Montreal, QC

Iron

Hello from Nashville

Iron

Hello from Albuquerque.

Iron

Hi all -Audio is live! If you don't see the audio bar at the top of the screen, please refresh your browser. It may take a couple tries. When you see the audio bar, if it doesn't start automatically, hit the play button. If you experience audio interruptions and are using IE, try using FF or Chrome as your browser. Many people experience issues with IE. Also, make sure your flash player is updated with the current version. Some companies block live audio streams, so if that is the case for your company, the class will be archived on this page immediately following the class and you can listen then. People don't experience any issues with the audio for the archived version.

Hello, from Montréal Qc, Canada

Iron

Hi from Lawrence, MA

Iron

Hello from Oviedo, Spain

Iron

Good afternoon for everybody from wwsouth in Florida.

Good sunny afternoon from southern Maryland. 

Thanks for joining us @bobybacs. Late nights for you this week, huh?

Hello from San Jose, CA.

Iron

Hello from Wisconsin!

Iron

Hello from PA, USA!

Iron

Hello from Chicago

Iron

Hello from Loch Ness!!

Iron

cloudy in Lincoln NE

Iron

Hello from Longmont, CO

Iron

@Jon - did you go to NEARFEST last weekend?

Iron

good afternoon from Indiana

Iron

I was in Menshestah New Hehmshuh once for a class.

Gold

Hello everyone from Timisoara

Iron

Greetings from Vermont, sunny and 68F

Iron

@78RPM - Jon is in New Hampshire.

@Jennifer, are you and Jon both in Boston? Jon's voice sounds like Woody Allen. I'm a big fan of Woody Allen.

Gold

slides down loaded

Iron

Hello from the sunny northwest Montana mountain forest to you familiar faces.

Gold

Hello, from Philippines.

Hello from El Dorado Hills CA

Iron

Hi everyone - It's another beautiful, sunny day here in Boston.

Jon and I are getting ready for Class 4. Don't forget to download today's slides!

The streaming audio player will appear at the top of this web page when the show starts at 2 PM Eastern time today. If the audio doesn't start automatically, click on the play button to start it. Note however, that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts, the audio bar doesn't appear or you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. If that doesn't work, try using Firefox or Google Chrome as your browser. Some users experience audio interruptions with IE. Also, make sure your flash player is updated with the current version. If that doesn't work, your company is likely blocking the live stream. The class will be archived immediately following our live taping and you will be able to listen to it then. You shouldn't experience any problems with the audio when listening on-demand.

Hello all, from Buffalo, NY!

Iron

Hi Jon and Jennifer. How are you doing today? I am looking forward for another great lecture.

Iron

Hi you all from Summerville, SC

Iron

Hello from Chicago

Iron

Good morning from Edmonton, AB

Iron

greetings from Detroit, Michigan.

Good to be aboard again.

Iron

Hello from Kansas

Iron

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Greetings from Scottdale, AZ

Iron

Remember - You are eligible to earn IEEE Professional Development Hours by attending these courses and participating in the chat function. Additionally, we are no longer using the points system, offering "graduation", or giving grades. The IEEE hours are taking the place of that. There are some important things for you to know about earning the hours. The most important ones are that you need to attend these courses live, you need to attend a minimum of two of them per semester, you need to fill out a course evaluation form within 2 weeks of the end of the class, you need to attend 4 out of the 5 classes per course, and you need to participate in the chat function every day you attend. Please click on the link at the top of this page that says "How do I earn IEEE professional development hours" to read all of these important details and more. You only need to fill out this form once per course week.

Hello... hello? Anybody here?

Last two days were great! MMI - what's next? Star Trek and Minority Report already appear old hat.

But I still get a thrill entering stores with ST sliding doors.

Iron


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