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The knowledge is important and the base of engineering, but the most important is practical engineering techniques and it could gain by experience
Iron

Emily, sometimes, we are in inventing and solution phase at the same time because we have to change the path and solve the problems and even we don't stop there and need to see upcoming requirements

Iron

On bees and mites and other things...

http://operaresearch.eu/files/repository/20121210154701_BeeHealthinEurope-Anoverview.pdf

Pesticide Incidents Often Linked to Misuse

Pesticides are often assumed to damage bee health. Nonetheless, while single poisonings linked to spray applications have been reported in many countries, pesticides don't appear to be a main cause of widespread colony losses.

Pesticdes are not the primary reason for decline of bees... Best to get your information right.

Iron

Don't forget all the birds being killed by the windmills.

Iron

"the right direction with wind energy, "???

In Ontario Canada every watt of wind energy requires one watt of Natural Gas Generation -- is that the right direction? ;-)

Iron

Thanks to Jon, Digi-Key and Design News!

Iron

@ jongabay - Well at least we as a society are are starting to to move in the right direction with wind energy, alternate fuels, etc.  Thanks Jon.

Iron

Really enjoyed the Q&A period. Interesting to read input from all over the globe!

Iron

As someone who worked on "The Hydrogen Economy" I suggest that people re-think their love affair. 

Iron

Thanks all -- I think that answers all the questions.


Hope you will attend tomorrow.

 

  -- Jon

 

Iron

@Kevin Barrer, ajt58- a big example for me would be the oil business. i believe if we wanted to, we could possibly switch to electrical and hydrogen powered cars. if we did, the environment would be drastically improved immediately. its just big business of the oil companies and political lobbying that makes it impossible to do so

 

The oil industry is a good example of an industry that moves in its own interest.

 

From killing electric cars, removing train tracks, supressing technologies, stiffling advances in solar, wind, and other technolgies.

 

They do this to preserve their way of life.

 

If free or clean energy were introduced, the world would go through a chaoitci period, but wpu;d be better off in the long run. 

---

 

 

Iron

@jongabay- haha! thanks for sharing that response

Iron

@ rbernas -  I agree.  I drive an electric car to try to do something a bit more sustainable for the environment.

Iron

Good session, see everyone tomorrow.

Thanks jon, interesting lecture

Iron

??? Jon, what do you think has been the most important tool invented, in terms of the consequences on humanity? (if you had to choose a single tool)


That's a tough one. I heard an interview on NPR with a 100 year old man who was asked the same question. I liked his answer so here goes.

 

It's the themos. You put something cold in there, it stays cold. You put something hot in there, it stays, hot. How does it know????

 

Iron

@ CurtD  - this is only the second such class I have joined, so I do not have much of a sample as yet. The first class (the "Internet of Things") was very interesting, but I'm not sure it had the in-depth work (such as sample calculations from a design example) to pass muster with the Indiana Board as suitable for CE hours. Also, Design News would have to write and administer exams in order to make it a CE-appropriate course.

@Kevin Barrer, ajt58- a big example for me would be the oil business. i believe if we wanted to, we could possibly switch to electrical and hydrogen powered cars. if we did, the environment would be drastically improved immediately. its just big business of the oil companies and political lobbying that makes it impossible to do so

Iron

???Since all inventions can have a military and comercial use, aren't we more concerned with weighing the tradeoff between an inventions benefits vs side effects?


We need to create better people, but through raising the bar on a societal level. Increase machines and we increase our abilities maybe tenfold. But, an improved person can have even more of an impact, espeically when focuseed on making the world a better place.

Unfortunately, we seem to cater to the lowest uncommon demonimators instead of raising the bar.

-----

Iron

@cpu: I certainly beleive so (for OIQ).

I had non official discussions last year with OIQ continuous formation guy.

He had a favorable opinion on that.

Iron

@ Kevin Barrer and rbernas - Haven't given up yet, but maintaining one's integrity over ethics comes at a price.

Iron

--

echnology in the telephone network. I ended up "shaming" him into my point of view.

Makes me wonder - there would probably be some value in adding an engineering ethics class to the training catalog at work - I have one as part of the CE load to re-up my license.

 

-- I think engineering ethics should be a requirement. If we know we are doing more harm than good, we need to be able to stand up and make our case.

 

Just because we can do a thing doesn't mean we should do a thing.

 

-----

Iron

??? Jon, what do you think has been the most important tool invented, in terms of the consequences on humanity? (if you had to choose a single tool)

Iron

???Since all inventions can have a military and comercial use, aren't we more concerned with weighing the tradeoff between an inventions benefits vs side effects?

Iron

Jon - Thinking of your comment on tools and the new CNC machines, etc. we could propose that the new 3D printers are the first step towards the replicators in Star Trek. We are beginning to catch up to our science fiction writers also.

 

-- Science fiction is often a precursor to reality. Imagination happens before any creation can take place.

Once ideas are released into the societal conscious, creative people find a way to make it happen.

 

 

Iron

-- I read an article that posited that the first artificial synthesis of Nitrogen, in the form of amonia I believe, actually had greater impact on human history than even the splitting of the atom. Fertilizers etc.

 

Yes, many advances have helped us survice as a species. Too many to list in a brief lecture. But thank you for sharing these interesting parts of our journey...

 

 

Iron

@Kevin Barrer - Do you think these IEEE credits will pass muster for a PE continuing ed review board?

Iron

Jon is there any relationship to technology and violence?

It seems we baby boomers did not have the high murder rate

when we did not have computers and the internet.

Iron

Jon - Thinking of your comment on tools and the new CNC machines, etc. we could propose that the new 3D printers are the first step towards the replicators in Star Trek. We are beginning to catch up to our science fiction writers also.

@ ajt58 and rbernas - don't give up so easily! I had to go to the mat with my boss once over the use of new technology in the telephone network. I ended up "shaming" him into my point of view.

Makes me wonder - there would probably be some value in adding an engineering ethics class to the training catalog at work - I have one as part of the CE load to re-up my license.

Interesting presentation but apeared to go anti-tech near the end.

 

 -- Not anti tech, but irresponsible use of tech.

Iron

Thanks all. I have to go back to interfacing with this machine on my desk.

Iron

@cpu "If you were dropped alone in the middle of the wliderness with nothing but a hatchet, how long would it take you to send me an email?"  - Joe Rogan

 

-- Good example of how technology builds on itself every sucessive generation.

 

Iron

??? Curious about more information on the hemp vs. synthetic rope any pointers to info?

 

There was a mention of it on a documentary on the history channel. I'm not sure if they have text searchable content, but a group did do a study.

 

??? Tools amplify the hand's movement and power; the machine replaces it. Wouldn't you say there is a coneceptual difference?

Early tools amplified our movements or abilities. Modern tools can do things with precision hands cannot. Like a multi axis CNC machine.  Next generations machines and tools will will enhance the human experience and senses.

 

 

Iron

@cpu "If you were dropped alone in the middle of the wliderness with nothing but a hatchet, how long would it take you to send me an email?"  - Joe Rogan

@ajt58- i agree. nowadays, its about the most profit that can be made in the shortest amount of time

Iron
@Don Pancoe, I agree with you that the Haber process for synthesizing of ammonia was the most significant invention of the 20th century.  It enabled Germany to continue war in WWI and it provide nitrogen fertilizer whithout which, the world could not have attained its present population.
 
Platinum

I've always felt that engineering ethics should be near the forefront of all of our work, but I found out a long time ago that this perspective is seldom valued.

Iron

We have switched from proximal communication to distance communication

Iron

Think of the complexity needed to fabricate a silicon chip (forget the latest nm-sized stuff, even just consider a 1960s-era op-amp). Such complex techniques for semiconductor fab. Lithography. How to even explain the concepts to someone from 100 years ago. If the world went into disarray (war, zombies...), a hundred years later, sitting around a camp-fire, people would not have an idea how to use a chip to "SnapChat", let alone what is in a chip, or how to fabricate one.

Iron

With this historical perpective of machine evolution,

growing on each previous generation,

It makes me laugh, when I see Apple with their ridiculus patents, sueing everybody, thinking they have invented everything.

Iron

@emily - I think the answer is definitely we are a more disconnected society even with the technology. I watch people in restaurants texting rather than talking. We are becoming a race of Borg.

@ otpw - I noticed that on Slide 17 as well. I suppose that the constant byproduct of technological advancement is the potential to screw something up. Sometimes, it just doesn't work. Sometimes, it fails spectacularly (such as the Tacoma Narrows Bridge). Sometimes, it can cause environmental and/or societal harm.

This is a good introduction to build the case for understanding the need for man-machine interface.

Sorry for delay, I am still waiting as the correspondence loads. I will stay on longer till all are answered.

 

Iron

Most great civilizations were based on a series of tech advances. thanks jon

Iron

I think tools have been used by humans even before they realized that. There are a lot of example in the animal world of species using some kind of tools to get food. 

Iron

Sorry i missed the lecture ;(

Iron

The question "are we still in the "inventing new things" phase, or are we getting into "the major cause of problems is solutions" phase?" brings cell phones to mind. They've changed our world by interconnecting us, but are we less humanly connected as a result?

Iron

Thanks Jon, Jennifer, Steph, & Digi-Key

Iron

thanks Jon for great lecture.

Iron

Hi - sorry for delay -- page froze up- I'm back.  If i haven't answered your question - please resubmit. I lost some of the correspondence when I reloaded.

 

 

Iron

??? How old were the oldest tools? What were they and where were they found? I'm guessing stone shards used for cutting somewhere in Africa...

Iron

@otpw - might not have been exactly anti-tech but to bring up the idea of being ethical in our use of machines and technology. There has to be a balance in design and ethics. Just my thought and take on the presentation.

Who in ancient times had running hot and cold water and steam rooms?

In our hemisfere, an advanced civilization, Incas in Peru, used hot and cold water, too.

sadly, the Antikythera mechanism could not protect the ship carrying it from sinking...everyone watching the gears and no one on the sounding line.

 

Interesting presentation but apeared to go anti-tech near the end.

Iron

I read an article that posited that the first artificial synthesis of Nitrogen, in the form of amonia I believe, actually had greater impact on human history than even the splitting of the atom. Fertilizers etc.

Iron

??? are we still in the "inventing new things" phase, or are we getting into "the major cause of problems is solutions" phase?

thanks,

 

Both are so related. The things we invent create solutions but can cause probelms. If things are done right, we can minimize these problems.

 

But, in the rush to market and profitability, corners are cut.

 

If we as a society held to higher standards - such as - 'everything needs to be recyclable', I think we would be better off in the future.

 

 

Iron

Yeah, my typos too.  History and Technology are two subjects that make a very interesting presentation. 

Thanks Jon, Digi-Key and EDN.

Iron

Enjoyed the presentation, very thought provocating

Iron

Don: Good engineering stands out, no matter what technology it's based on..

Thanks Jon et al, looking forward to seeing where this series will go.

Iron

Anyone mention nitroglycerine and dynamite?

@Kevin Barron - Thanks

Iron

I enjoy seeing how older technologies (not necessarily ancient) often solved problems through sheer magnitude before key technologies became commonplace. Example, the huge electro-mechanical phone switches that were used before electronic switching and then digital communications emerged.

Iron

Jon, were you talking of NOVA, the bronze machine found near Greece?

Iron

@ lbrooks - I recall from Boy Scouts (long ago) that hemp ropes were much better than many of the synthetic ropes then available. Hemp was less "slippery" than, say, nylon, and a knot tied in hemp held it's "shape" better

 

 

Yes and hemp is better at low temperatures for the most part.

 

Iron

I think the best feat of humanity was mastering communication, first verbal, and then written.

I was expecting a bit more than a HS intro but it's a start.

Iron

thanks Jon, interesting presentation. see all tomorrow.

Iron

Sorry about typos - typing fast to try and answer all questions.

 

Iron

Mastering fire is probably one of the best feat of humanity.

Iron

??? So Jon, do you believe that in some forms we are catching up to the knowledge of engineering that was lost in ancient times?

 

In some ways. We are re discovering many things and may someday have a better understanding of the hidden knoledges that early civilizations had. 

I think konwledge is power and those that have knowledge use it to advance themselves.

 

But, workers are needed. Look at stone structurs like pyramids and cathedrals. Some of them we still don;t understnad how they were made.

 

 

Iron

Appreciate your perspective. Thanks. 

 

I had never heard of the Antikythera Mechanism before.  I'm looking forward to Wikipedia-ing it tonight!  Thanks. 

The development of metallurgy, and the discovery of alloys.

@ lbrooks - I recall from Boy Scouts (long ago) that hemp ropes were much better than many of the synthetic ropes then available. Hemp was less "slippery" than, say, nylon, and a knot tied in hemp held it's "shape" better.

Thanks Jon, it's great to have a historical perspetive.

A lot of younger people have little idea that there was great engineering before 2000,

before internet, wikipedia, and facebook!

Iron

I've read/heard about the former industry owners who used to provide speed/cocain to many laborers, and thier infnats, who toiled away in their factories creating their industrial empires.

Iron

Interesting Antikythera Mechanism.

Ancient Native and Central American cultures' commerce and trading, use of "tokens" for trade. Calendars. Place of status for women. Advances in cultures independent from West...

Iron

@Jon: it would be nice to have more links in slide deck pages to follow those for more info

Iron

cutting multi tousand ton rocks with greater than laser presicion out of quarrys and transporting them many miles to be stacked on top of each other.

Stone walls that appear to have been poured into place.

 

Iron

Re: slide 17: The new Cosmos series on Natgeo channel is led by theoretical physicist Neil Degrasse Tyson. In one episode titled "The Clean Room" he tells how Clair Cameron Patterson found the age of the earth by measuring lead, and in so doing discovered that lead from gasoline was polluting the entire earth. The petroleum industry tried to silence him until he found an audience with Senator Muske. Worth watching.

Platinum

??? are we still in the "inventing new things" phase, or are we getting into "the major cause of problems is solutions" phase?

thanks,

 

Also correct about the Romans having steam rooms and water mix valves all mechanically.

 

Iron

??? So Jon, do you believe that in some forms we are catching up to the knowledge of engineering that was lost in ancient times?

Marcellus Shale:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Jjb5akEsrI

fyi

Some of us do work in mineral exploration you know.

Iron

printing, milling, forging

Iron

We are the product of many generations of people building on past ocomplishments

 

Thanks again

Iron

What technologies did ancients use to carve a completely symmetrical face on the sphynx?

Iron

How about writing and writing equipment? Quill pens, inks, paper, etc

??? Tools amplify the hand's movement and power; the machine replaces it. Wouldn't you say there is a coneceptual difference?

 

Iron

Thanks very much Jon and Jennifer. 

Link to info on ancient machine you mentioned was unearthed?

 

Thanks, looking forward to your discussion of bio-linking tomorrow.
Iron

Thanks Jon and Jennifer

Iron

Wow, you folks are good. You are aware of the Antikythera mechanism, the bagdad battery, the lamps used in egypt, and others --

 

Iron

yes, Pyramid building: just the other day I saw a documentary that the road where those giant rocks where moved they where soaked with water

Iron

Many thanks Jon and Jennifer for the lecture.

Thank you! Interesting.

Iron

Jennifer, Jon,

Many Thanks!

Iron

Thanks, Jon and Jennifer

??? Curious about more information on the hemp vs. synthetic rope any pointers to info?

Iron

Thanks Jon - we talk a lot about tools and basic machines, but what about cutting utensils?  Seems that w/o precision we wouldn't have gotten very far.

Iron

Vermeer's paintings, 19th century, almost photographic in their quality.

Iron

Jewelry stone carving...

Iron

Thanks Jon for the food for thought.

Iron

interesting talk ; Thanks Jon !   And Jennifer and Digikey !

 

Iron

Interesting review of the history of engineering.

Crood puppets were very sophisticated.

Iron

Luminescent lamps used deep in the Egyptian pyramids or elsewhere.

Iron

Thanks for the history lesson.

Iron

thx for the presentation, will attend tomorrow's as well

Iron

Thank you Jon,


Great presentation!!

Iron

Thank you, Jon, for a great first-day presentation!

Concrete by the romans

Iron

interesting stuff

Iron

thanks Jon, Jennifer

Iron

Thanks Jon and Jennifer.

Iron

Yes, batteries...

Iron

Hi All, Jon here. Please preceed questions with ??? so I can picke them out easily and i will try to address them all.

 

Iron

Building the Pyramids in Egypt.

Iron

Baghdad Battery

Iron

Building of great monuments and structures

Iron

The ancient Chinese had gunpowder and early rocketry.

Iron

Thank you Jon, Jennifer and Digi-Key!

Iron

advanced ancient technologies

egyptians did a lot of things we still don't understand !   ;-)

 

 

Iron

Stone age tool building skills: for example Clovis points

Egyptians and others had amazing construction capabilities of projects on a large scale. That was advanced technology that we might not quite have replicated yet. How did those stones fit together so well?

Iron

Interesting topic, thanks.

Iron

Thanks Jon and Jennifer

Iron

thanks Jon and Jeniffer

Iron

Great Presentation

 

thanks

Iron

Sub terranian tunnels in Turkey (I think Turkey)

Platinum

Egyptians used a version of lost wax casting ... that was 're-invented' a couple millenia later.

Iron

Batteries --old, old, old...

Iron

Heavy construction techniques

Iron

Keep up the good work.

Iron

Planetary motion and calendars.

Iron

There is an evaluation form which permits comment on the presenter

 

Iron

Roman concrete based on vulcanic ahes

Iron

Previous question (I fell behind) - Romans

Iron

Pyramid building

Platinum

Jon's question was: What other advanced ancient technologies were in use that rival our abilities today?

What are the obstacles for becoming energy self-reliant instead of depending on massive grids?

Iron

Unfortunately we have politicians stuck inside the machine!

 

Iron

I'm not sure I'm interested in Jon's political opinion.  Let's DO get on with it!

if it ain't broken, don't fix it!  Very popular...

Iron

Tools amplify the hand's power and movement; machines replace same. Isn't there a conceptual difference?

Iron

In Santorini they needed plumbing because it was dangerous going to cliff edge in the dark.

Iron

Flouride is still a toxin, in toothpaste or not.

Iron

Pipes with running water and toilets found on Santorini are the oldest ever discovered. The dual pipe system suggests hot and cold running water.

http://www.historywiz.com/minoanplumbingandheating.html

Minoan...

Iron

You can see a lot of great instruments and machines as they developed through time at the Musee des Arts Et Metiers in Paris.  My awesome wife took me there when we went a few years ago.  Highly recommended! 

Race between population growth and tool development.

 

Iron

How about fuel injection replaced the carburator.

Iron

 Close to 4,000 years ago, about 1700 B.C., the Minoan Palace of Knossos on the isle of Crete featured four separate drainage systems that emptied into the great sewers constructed of stone.

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/pmroman.html

fwiw

 

Iron

EFI - Electronic Fuel Injection

Iron

See "Wanted" loom of fate with Angelina and Morgan. Very high tech

Iron

Interesting to concider textile weaving as programming

We often fail to recoginze the skills needed in the past

Iron

The Jacard loom. It used punched cards, as I recall

Romans known for the baths...

Iron

This is a great presentation.

Iron

The Roman Baths had hot and cold water

Slide 13, the third bullet should be automatic loom, not automatic look.

Iron

Efficiently using steam required development of thermodynamics.

I believe the Greeks had it before the Romans.

Iron

Hot and cold running water and steam rooms were available in the Roman times in Rome.

Jon's question was: Who in ancient times had running hot and cold water and steam rooms?

Thanks for the links guys !   ;-)

 

Iron

Hot and cold water:  The Ancient Romans

Iron

Don't know, will follow the links!

Iron

some bloggers have said it already.

Iron

Antikythera mechanism found on a shipwreck off the Greek island of Antikythera.

Iron

an amazing machine, but a bigger question... where did the knowlegde come from to make the model.

Iron

The Antikythera Calculator?

Iron

The Antikythera Mechanism

Iron

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/ancient-computer.html

This should be it.

Iron

Antikythera mechanism

Iron

yes, i couldn't attempt to spell it though.

Iron

There was a Greek astronomy machine found on a sunken ship

Found in a Greek shipwreck: an astronomical calculator of incredible complexity.

I don't know what it is

Iron

The astronomical clock.

 

They recently x-rayed it and found complexity upon complexity deeper inside. Was found in a shallow sea.

Iron

I think I saw a PBS show on it.

Iron

I can't remember the name but it was found in a Greek shipwreck.

Iron

Is there a picture of this neat machine?

 

Anti-kythera mechanism

Iron

The clock -- Sci. Amer. Article.

Iron

Aynthekera or something like that?

Iron

Sorry, I meant Jon.

Iron

To click the link in slide 7 you ned to be in presentation mode on PP

Iron

Not many questions in this presentation

Things we understand -- so far... it could get more complicated.

Iron

I believe he said Hemp is better

Iron

It's hard to beat Mother Nature, huh John?

Iron

Not many questions in this presentation

Iron

slide 10 has the boat

Iron

Now on slide 10 (for me)

Iron

Can't see or hear anything.

 

Iron

slide 9 for me

Iron

We are on slide 8

 

Iron

The link worked for me.  You might have to change your viewing mode presentation, etc.

Platinum

It works if you are in powerpoint presentation mode

Iron

Have to veiw slides as slideshow, then the link is clickable.

Iron

link works in presentation mode only

Iron

In slide show mode

Iron

Does the Link on Slide 7 work?

Those workers who master the incremental improvements in tools increase their own "value."

Not able to see or hear anything. I have downloaded the slides for review. Will check with my IT to verify access to noted web addresses in the troubleshooting guides. Bye for now.

Iron

Man has always been lazy - Tools and machines helped us do more with less physical activity

 

Iron

Kathy Rutherford

Welcome aboard, and

congradulations on your first post.

Rodney B. Rutherford

where are you from?

Iron

Hi, I'm from Minnesota

 

Iron

Hi from Salt Lake City, Utah

Iron

Hello from Pittsburg, Kansas

 

Iron

HI from Andover, MA

Iron

hello everyone from Timisoara

Iron

Hi From Waterloo Ontario

Iron

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Iron

Hello from Wisconsin!

Iron

@ yves, love it or hate it... its still here.

Iron

hi from Lincoln NE

Iron

Hello from Montreal, QC

Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Silver

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

"We will begin by looking at how we developed as a species in conjunction with our machines."

This ought to be good, espicially from Jon Gabay!

Iron

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Iron

@Jennifer. Thank you for the information.

Iron

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Hello from Chicago

Iron

greetings from slc ut....

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How is everyone doing?

Iron

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Iron

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You got it right TomBee!

A large number of people mistaken this with Mexican Independence day!

Iron

Mexican vistory over the French at the Battle of Puebla. Go Meh-he-Co - 1862

Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Platinum

 

hello from Mishawaka

 

Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Iron

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Hi from Montreal.

Iron

Good morning from GA

Iron

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Greetings from Ghana @ work

Iron

Good morning! Class starts in just over 3 hours. Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Hello fellow Rutherford!  And I'd also like the slides, when available. thanks!

Iron


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