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@dgkohler, @DaveWR, All files had at least 1 function >50.

Iron

@dgkohler, @DaveWR, I found a tool to do cyclomatic complexity.  (I couldn't use the Metrics Eclipse plug-in.)

The worst function in my 10,000-line .c file had a cyclomatic complexity of 467!
40% of the files had at least 1 function greater than 100.  :-(

Iron

@dgkohler, @DaveWR, I found a tool to do cyclomatic complexity.  (I couldn't use the Metrics Eclipse plug-in.)

The worst function in my 10,000-line .c file had a cyclomatic complexity of 467!
40% of the files had at least 1 function greater than 100.  :-(

Iron

@dgkohler, @DaveWR, I found a tool to do cyclomatic complexity.  (I couldn't use the Metrics Eclipse plug-in.)

The worst function in my 10,000-line .c file had a cyclomatic complexity of 467!
40% of the files had at least 1 function greater than 100.  :-(

Iron

Not used Cyclomatic Complexity

Test cases aligned with requirements, modules - excel format

That list of other unit test frameworks for c is here: http://check.sourceforge.net/doc/check_html/check_2.html#Other-Frameworks-for-C

 

Iron

In response to my own problem from near the end...  

 

I have a lot of reading to do to see if any of these will work for me but I have found several possibilities for automated unit testing of embedded c code.  Check (http://check.sourceforge.net/) is a framework and decent set of tutorials for doing unit testing in C.  Even better they link to all the other frameworks they know of, so if check doesn't cut it for me, they've already given me a list for further research.

Iron

Had to refresh the page, now it's playing/downloading.

Trying to play back archive audio, isn't running.

@mark.broune, so very true

Iron

Because of a faulty memory, I have to use lots of comments to say what each section of code is for. But sometimesI'm not very clear even to myself a few days later.

Iron

Too many shortcuts are taken when management underestimates costs and complexity of the application build and test. You can,t test quality into a poorly code design.

Iron

Code comment. Over the years I have had to decompile and modify code. An essential task is to document code.

Writing function headers that explains what data it works on and what it does for each routine is tedious but essential for rational maintenance.

This experience has taught me that having code that is commented by the person that actually knew what it was designed to do in the first place is is a wonderful thing.

Fie on the programmer that ignores the needs of future maintenance staff - even if that will be the future self.

 

Found my FF audio bar issue. I use No-Script and had to allow cinchcast.com, guess that was part of the audio fixes applied today.

Iron

Enforcing the Software Design Cycle has to have management buyin to be effective.

Iron

thanks all, jacob, chuck, digikey and ieee.

Thanks, all.  Signing off here, too.

Iron

@dgkohler, that is my fear, actually.  There are so few function calls, that it might be low.  Though, there's lots of if statements and nested switch statements.

Iron

Well, good lecture and good discussion.  Thanks all!

Iron

@DaveWR, Thanks for the sympathy.  Have been on the path (pretty much lead by me) for about a year.  Fortunately, management and the team support me.  But it's still hard to change old ways...

Iron

Good stuff -- will review again now that I have audio fixed.

There is a new Flash version -- had to download it.

Bye and thanks.

Iron

Thanks DaveWR, I'll check those out. :) I appreciate the info.

Iron

anyway I guess no thoughts

Thanks Jacob, Chuck and all involved!

see you all tomorrow!

Iron

@Tocard: Maybe the longer case statements result in fewer branches per line of code. :) I'd be curious to see that complexity metric!

Iron

I posted some links on State Machines and Tables at the end of the lecture yesterday, I suspect they will be useful to some.

 

Iron

@TOCARD: Sounds very familiar. Use whatever you can -- clean it up -- and then insist standards be maintained. I sympathize. Been there done that.

Iron

Thank you Jacob and Digi-Key. And thank you all for the pleasant, informative, and humorous interactions!

Iron

@DaveWR, Thanks.  WE are just at the beginning of needing to clean up our code.  I walked into a project with a >10,000 line file.  Some case statements in that file are >200 lines each inside functions that are >2,000 lines.  Yikes!  (And I'd just love to know what kind of cyclomatic number it comes up with.  My guess: >10.  ;-) )

Iron

emertp, just following the form. LOL.  They should explain their comment in a group code review.

Iron

@ d.Jack: I know it's all gray but any thoughts on how to go about it? some companies use gray box testing. kind wondering what they do?

Iron

I hav.e had programmers to insert comments that did not match the code anywhere on that page

Iron

@TOCARD: I only use metrics on large projects. In the last few years they have not been useful. I cleaned up our code and design. End of of problem. ;-) However I occasionally run them to make sure we are on track still.

Iron

The other thing is that variable/funtion names need to be related to the real world and what is done.  Not some obscure meaningless clecer name that the programmer won't remember 6 months from now.

Iron

@rreay  : so you want to be able to look at the end result and automatically identify a Pass/Fail ?

We were doing this step in production testing (human running scripts but checking if end result was OK)

 

Iron

@DaveWR, do you use Metrics?  I was looking at it earlier on my quest for free/low cost metrics tools.  How do you like it?

Iron

@chris.j @Gene Kern You two are better psychologists and sociologists than I am. I didn't even think of that possibility.

Gold

Added bug - in the book "mythical man-month" they describe a situation where fixing a bug causes something else to break and a point is reached for a given large code base there is a irreducible number of bugs per number of lines. While this is depressing pessimistic it does point to the value of a good test suite (perhaps automated so using it is painless) and discipline to use it.

 

Jaccob, thanks for another fine session. Signing out.

Iron

I have been tasked before to review a application and analysed 1. the number of different programmers and the number of major patches that were made to the code. That's why I push for coding standards on my projects.

Iron

Go 8mins in to the audio and fine the start of the jacob talk.

Iron

I design the firmware and hardware concurrently.  What would that method be called?

Iron

@vic14   its really ALL grey-box testing!

Iron

Eclipse Metrics:

http://eclipse-metrics.sourceforge.net/

fwiw

Iron

What is the problem with leaving comments in place?  Is this some kind of ego trip or job securtity?

Iron

Elite genius = transferred to another project!

Iron

@78RPM......that's a good idea, until the non-commented portion is changed and the commented portion is not updated as well!

Iron

@StephT The problem tends to be that most of the code in my systems drivers HW. It seems liek to automate I need to either write a SW simulator of componets we've bought from their 500 page data sheet, or build something that can analyze the output past the 3rd party HW or as a standin for the HW

 

Iron

Interesting....the audio player now appears to be playing country music....

Iron

@dgkohler, A manager might ask programmers to document minimalist code by writing it out in a more understandable way, then commenting out the expanded method.  That way, the elite genius gets his way while passing on the intent.

Gold

As a code reviewer and future maintgainer, if the code is not readable it is not approved.  A low cyclomatic complexity does not count if the code is unreadable.

Iron

I give up.  Monday, Tuesday, and today I got called away five minutes into the session.  Yesterday I was just plain gone.

Iron

@Jacob: how about gray box testing any thoughts on that?

Iron

Question: Does the Cyclomatic Complexity have any correlation to code's readability? You previously mentioned people to take pride in reducing their codes to minimalistic lines that are very difficult to discern the intent of... It appears that is out of the scope of CC.

Iron

@StephT: That type of testing is usually in Enterprise Level Compilers or add-ons for same.

RAD Studio Architect etc. (Delphi C+) (Now has ARM Compiler for Android)

Suspect there are add-ins for Eclipse -- see Eclipse Marketplace.

Iron

@ rreay   : any thoughts on how to automate (particularly unit tests) testing on embedded code? 

Do you have any "input" port ?

In some past projects, we would script input commands to kinda automate test cases.

 

Iron

Awhile ago I was looking for cyclomatic complexity tools and ran across this Stack Overflow question:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/125898/tool-for-calculating-cyclomatic-complexity

Iron

That is what they always say, but i am experienced enough in programming to troubleshoot code in several different languages, and can normally show them the unintended consiquences of what they did.

Iron

@gongji - See http://www.softwaretestingportal.com/list-of-software-testing-tools/

Iron

no cyclomatic complexity testing ; 

Do you know of any RTOS packages where these would be included ?

 

Iron

can you give us the names of the most popular testing tools out there?

 

Iron

Nothing I change ever affects the code .... except that one time

Blogger

So unit testing on embedded systems could be done with tools like cpputest or even scripting tools.  The level of testing is often decided based on the product you are developing.  Odds are a toothbrush is being unit tested

Blogger

On slide 15 (cyclomatic complexity), I see four possible paths in the diagram. But M is 3 not 4.

Iron

@emertp,  I love it when you ask a programmer what he did -- because we have a problem.  He answers, "I changed some things, but nothing I did would have affected that."

Gold

Testing completeness can be measured a number of ways but one way is a % of paths and branches within the software that is covered.  Some IDE's will let you run your code in debug, interact with the system and then provide you with the report of what was executed, what wasn't, etc.  Pretty neat.

Blogger

we have had cases where fixing a bug created one or more bugs in previously tested code, there fore , we regression test with every new build.

Iron

78RPM, the tables decrease complexity because rather than giant if/else or switch statements that contain many branches, you instead end up with a simple lookup table.

Blogger

@chris.j ...or don't know what we don't know...

Iron


QQ: On slide 13, we were typing then. Go over the first bullet again. How do we "measure the completeness" of a testing process?

Gold

QQ:  On slide 15, how is complexity affected by yesterday's suggestion that we use configuration tables? Do config tables increase or decrease complexity? Do they affect E, N, or P?

Gold

I second @bobybacs' question...

Iron

Today's audio bar changes broke it completely for me in FF 27.0.1. Had to use Chrome for audio and FF for chat.

Iron

Continued integration testing as bugs are fixed tends to reduce the bug-lists (nearly) exponentially !

Iron

Question related to fault based testing: you mentioned input data corruption, what are some other types of fault based testing?

Iron

@Jacob: what kind of continuos integration tools do you recommend for embedded system ?

Iron

Interesting that there seem to be fewer audience questions today than on previous days.  Does that mean we aren't interested in testing, or just don't do it as much as we should?

Iron

Reverse numbering in "Bug Severity" (5 = most critical). then you can multiply Severity x Priority to rank all bugs for what to attack first (Like in a FMEA).

Iron

Jacob

How does Cyclomatic Complexity work with multicore applications and ones running under an OS?

Iron

Thank you for the presentation. The audio worked well today using Chrome32 but the audio bar was not showing progress and it started on its own today. 

Iron

we establish a test verification matrix tha shows where each requirement is meet and in which moduale.

Iron

Excellent, maybe I shall go this lecture again like some of the others

I really like the way the audio just started up. I touched the audio bar and it died

I touched it again and it was back. I can live with that, Thank you ...

Iron

Thanks Jacob, any thoughts on how to automate (particularly unit tests) testing on embedded code?  Testing doesn't get done when it has to be manual all the time.  

Iron

Thanks to both of you, will check them out.  Right now we do it on a white board... OIE!

Iron

audio bar looks different from before (IE11)

I see, thanks again Jacob.

Iron

good lecture.  last day tomorrow

Iron

Thanks, Jacob, for another great presentation!

Iron

@LG, Bugzilla is a popular open source one.  We use StarTeam, which also has defect tracking built-in.

Iron

Thank you Jacob, DigiKey! Awesome lection!

Iron

Jacob, thank you for today's lecture!

Iron

Great lecture today did not have to use brail.  Thanks Jacob, Charles, DigiKey and Design News

Iron

we add stages unit component and unit module.

Iron

vinjayz, they are standard terminology that you can find in programs like track, bugzilla, etc

Blogger

@LG: We use Test Track Pro for defect tracking, which integrates into Visual Studio

Iron

Thank you Jacob.  This is a very good summary of the process.

Iron

Good set of slides on software testing.

Iron

I think edge refers to any of the paths the software can take between nodes.

Iron

Great Lecture . Thanks . Hoping I can implement some of these in the future. Mainly Ad-Hoc testnig at the moment and that is not effecient in a lot of cases

Iron

Very good lesson today,

specially the Cyclomatic Complexity concept.

Many thanks!

Iron

Thanks Jacob for another great section.

Thank you, Jacob, Charles, Design News, and Digi-Key

Gold

Thanks Jacob! 

Question: Is the Bug Severity and Bug Fix Priority which you have presented are the standard ways to label a certain bug?

Iron

Thank you again Jacob for an insightful presentation

Iron

Thank you Jacob and Chuck

Iron

Thanks..I have another meeting...

Slide 20: Bug list Maintenance is the key to success in fixing things broken !

Iron

Very good session thank you

thank you Jacob!

it was an informative presentation

Iron

Thanks Jacob and Charles.

Iron

Thank you Jacob and Charles!

Iron

Thanks Jacob, Chuck & Digi-Key! Have a great day, all!

Iron

Appreciate it Jacob. Have a nice day.

Will write email soon...

Many thanks, Jacob. Lots of great information to chew on.

Iron

Question: What does and Edge mean on slide 15?

Iron

Thank you Jacob, great lecture!

Iron

never have written test plan, verbal planning and on the fly testing. haven't used bug severity.

Really nice summary, thank you.

Iron

Do IDE's have features to keep track of "bugs" or is this done with just a spread sheet or some specific software?

 

Iron

I use cyclomatic complexity for code reviews and evaluating my own code.  I have not used it for testing.  I use SourceMonitor at http://www.campwoodsw.com/

Iron

we do not use Cyclomatic complexity testing,- probabaly luck of knowledges and tools at moment.

Iron

Very good topic for software testing...

Iron

Have not used this technique though it appears close to a logical anylsis of your algorithms

Iron

"Edge" looks like any sequence of statements (including function calls) that eventually lead to a branch

Iron

We currently do not use Cyclomatic Complexity but are looking for a tool to add it to our coding standards.

Iron

I have not used Cyclomatic Complexity before, how does it work with multicore?

Iron

Cyclomatic complexity is checked when the tools are avalable.

When the code is reviewed, high complexity code is generally reworkd to reduce the complexity.

Iron

Q: What are some of the ways you go about generating test cases?
A: No, not at this time (mostly because of lack of management support for this effort)

Iron

No, not formally.  I've played around with Understand by Scitools for one more complex project - it has cyclomatic complexity among many other useful things.  cc etc. did help me understand (hehe) my code better and see what were the hairiest parts.

But no, not regularly.

Iron

keeping up with the salesfolks & project managers is enogh complexity already - don't need to add a clclone into the mix. (lol)

Iron

do not currently sue cyclomatic test techniques.

 

Iron

I do ot use CYCLO COMPLEX it is new for me.

Iron

No, do not use Cyclomatic Complexity.

Iron

I may not intensionally used Cyclomatic Complexity testing. But I have done manual exhaustive Testing of all possible control paths. Especially for small embedded software projects. Never used any tools for such testing.

I have never used cyclomatic complexity. This class is the first time I have heard of it.

Iron

Every static analysis tool worth anything will calculate cyclomatic complexity.

Iron

Not use,but would consider it.

No do not use cyclomatic testing

Iron

No do not use.  But will look at it.

Iron

I don't use cylcomatic testing.  For the most part, the code I write has very few test nodes to deal with.

Iron

do not use cyclomatic testing

Iron

Have not used cyclomatic complexity for testing yet.

Iron

cyclomatic complexity - NO

Iron

No cyclomatic complexity for testing

Iron

I think we don't use such thing

Iron

No cyclomatic complexity.  We try to make each module a "Loop" with minimal branch or jumps.  AKA we wing it.

 

Iron

do not use cyclomatic complexity for testing

Iron

Have never heard of cyclomatic complexity.

Gold

No. Do not use cyclomatic complexity at this time.

Iron

I do not think we use cyclomatic complexity

Iron

We do not use cyclomatic complexity testing

We do not use cyclomatic complexity.

Iron

For now, we still do not use it.

Iron

we do not use cyclomatic testing

Iron

J's? never used anything like cyclomatic complexity, just testing.

complexity <= 10 Source Monitor tool

Iron

No but would be really interesting in exploring this

Iron

we do not use cyclomatic complexity. what does "Edges" mean?

Iron

I don't use Cyclomatic Complexity.

No, but I'd like to see what tools others use.

Iron

I have not used Cyclomatic Complexity before, this is a new concept.

Iron

Do not use cyclomatic complexity.

Iron

Do not use Cyclomatic Testing yet

Iron

We do not use cyclomatic testing.

Iron

I'm not aware that we use this technique.

Iron

Do not use, but would consider.

Iron

We use test cases for checking boundary conditions, evolve them for checking logic, maths, etc.

Iron

Question: Do you use cyclomatic complexity for testing?  What else do you use it for?  Any tool recommendations?

Blogger

We generate the test cases multiple ways.  QA first generated test cases for all commands with varies parameters per our command specification.  Firmware also recommends test cases based off of inside knowledge of code which will drive the execution of code normally not executed.

Iron

We do not use continous integration but are working on using it in future products for ease of development.

Iron

Q:  What's the difference between branch and path coverage?

Iron

Test cases derived from customer reported issues and of course feature requirements.

Iron

"User's Perspective" looks more like a metric to report.

Iron

Specific functions meeting performance requirements.  Operator inputs.  Error code levels sufficiently identified to be able to tell you what actually failed.  Log of operations, errors.

Iron

Mainly Fault based testing but there are times in certain cases where we use Ad-hoc and Exploratory testig

Iron

Q: What are some of the ways you go about generating test cases?
A: Usually ad-hoc test cases.

Iron

Using AD-Hoc and some exploratory testing

Iron

test cases are derived from the requirements, the user community, and some fault detection.

Iron

ad-hoc and vectored testing using an overarching "can I break it? perspective

Iron

Fault based testing, depending on cases defined in the specifications.

Exploratory for testing newly implemented functionality

Iron

question: What are some of the ways you go about generating test cases?

regular operation then, How can we screw this up?

Iron

we use risk analysis to drive the testing effort

Iron

Exploratory + fault based testing

 

Iron

we use exploratory testing

Most test cases are ad-hoc unless we have prior data provided by users.

Iron

Test cases are generated from requirements. Requirements Based Test (RBT) exercises all requirements and tries to stress boundaries of those requirements.

Iron

We develop our system test cases from the req'ts and use cases.  The exploratory type is what we use as we are designing.

Iron

Usually supplement with Ad-hoc and fault-based.

Iron

All three dependent on available resources

Iron

We used fault based testing.  Test cases are written against the requirements and product features.  A combination of white and black box testing is accomplished.  This is all done by our software quality group.

Iron

exploratory and fault based.

Iron

Mainly ad-hoc and exploratory, depending on the project and the software engineer working with us. I personally would like to work more towards fault-based.

Iron

Have used all three methods of testing (slide 12) but it seems that turning it over to a human monkey works very well.

Gold

ad-hoc and fault based

Iron

SQA operates in a semi vacuum. They are not always given clear test cases. Most of the time they perform exploratory testing and any faults turned up become part of future fault based testing.

Iron

Mostly use ad-hoc and exploratory.  If something doesn't seem right, I'll try fault-based testing.

Iron

Ad-Hoc and Exploratory

Iron

uses Ad-hoc and Exploratory Testing

Iron

I have done it all Ad-Hoc, Exploratory and Fault based testing.

I am using the white box approach mostly.

Iron

All methods are used.  Most depend on the type of product.  Hardware vs software.

Iron

good question to ask and think about...but no time to think about and answer because the lecture proceeds ahead at a rapid pace

Iron

Defined test plan, very detailed test cases (required for Aerospace).

Iron

Testing is developed by the SW engineer to meet the customer requirements - ad hoc.

Iron

Mostly Ad-hoc with some exporatory and fault-based.

Iron

code coverage test, LDRA, MISRA DO-178B

Iron

We use all of the above...

Iron

Ad-hoc & exploratory.

Iron

Test Cases; added to suite as bugs found in the field.

Iron

Ad- Hoc and some exploratory testing

Iron

Ad-hoc and fault based.  Again, we spend a lot of time defining what inputs can/cant be and what outputs should be.

Iron

Some of all three also tests are created based on the requirements

Iron

Exploratory and Fault-based testing

Iron

J's? use all three, not so much fault testing.

We use all three methods.

Iron

We use Exploratory Testing

Iron

use continuous integration with subverion

Iron

Hello from Forest, MS.

 

Iron

Question: What are some of the ways you go about generating test cases?

Blogger

continuous integration is used on a weekly cycle.

Iron

We do not use continous integration.  However our group is only 2 people.

Iron

Question: How many attendees use continuous integration?  If you do what kinds

Answere: usually not for scheduling reasons.

  N/A

Iron

We establish use cases to verify requirements during regression testing.

Iron

Q: How many attendees use continuous integration?  If you do what kinds of tools do you use?A: We are using continuous integration implemented with custom Python scripts and the CPPUnit Framework.

Iron

I work one module at a time. Integration takes place one module at a time and the work stays on the one module until it processes the test data properly. I work alone for the most part. 

 

Iron

None too saavy on conyinuous integration,

I lost my notes on the automobile OBD CAN bus readings

I am lost

Iron

Do as part of the build process - no tool.

Iron

Nope continuous integration.  Hard to think and answer question when the presentation goes right on after asking question.  Our size of embedded systems rarely involve more than one developer, and simply compiling catches some errors.  Automated regression etc. testing would be nice but may be more work than it's worth, at least until the firmware is close to complete.

Iron

What are the reasons for not using continuous integration?

 

Iron

Continuous integration - YES

Small embedded system - no special tools

Iron

Don't use continuous integration, usually only one programmer if I'm lucky

Iron

use continuous integration

Iron

continuos integration tool: CruiseControl, Jenkins

Iron

I see lots of regular builds, but I can't really tell if it's continuous integration or not.

Iron

Don't use Continuous Integration Testing

Iron

J's? software people have used with continuous integration, not sure what is meant by tools, eclipse?

No continuous integration here. What tools are there?

Continuous integration is not used daily.  We integrate about once a week, or every other week.

Iron

Subversion to maintain build test and track

Iron

use continuous integration with SVN

Iron

Don't use continuous integration as defined here at this time. Pretty much only a single software engineer on the project at a time.

Iron

Integration Testing was done by SQA and build engineers

we are using continuous Integration testing, however we don't use any special tool

Iron

The main firmware group uses continuous integration.

Iron

I use continuous integration for all changes.

 

Iron

No continuous integration.

Iron

I don't use integration testing because I am the only one developing the software.

Iron

Continuous integration is not used.

Iron

We do not.  Generally, each of our projects is self-contained.  You only have a single developer working on a codebase at a time.

Iron

We have never used continuous integration. Our boss just trusted that we did the right thing.

Gold

Latest Win7 update must have broken something. Today FF 27.0.1 does NOT display an audio bar.

Iron

We do not use continuous integration.

Iron

Do not use continuous integration

Iron

As a single developer, I don't use continuous integration.

Iron

We use continuous integration.  Every time a load is checked in it is automatically checked.

Iron

We don't use Continuous Integration. Team is very small.

Iron

No continuous integration at this job.

Iron

No continuous integration...

Iron

The present trend of wanting to change S/W via wireless connections, scares the living ---- out of me.  Talking about asking for a hack.

Iron

Do not use Continuous Integration at present

Iron

We do not use continuous integration.

Iron

Jacob: Continuous Integration Testing may or may not catch all the issues created after a new integration.

We builf and test weekly, with regression

Iron

Question: How many attendees use continuous integration?  If you do what kinds of tools do you use?

Blogger

Jacob what is Evaluation testing ?

In Windows 7, the last versions of Firefox and Flash works very well for the audio.

Iron

Regression testing is very important - fix one may often breake another.

Iron

Unit testing and system testing

Iron

Chrome is working for me. Worked yesterday too.

Iron

Q: Which of these 3 (testing) stages do you include in your own design cycle?
A: We have done, in order of decreasing time/effort investment:
    Unit, Integration and System.

Iron

Only Integration and System testing. Actually, thats one question I wanted to ask you: How do you do Unit Testing in embedded software? For example, how do you unit-test a I2C write routine?

 

Iron

Im on a small company which is currently developing their own testing process, what could the most basic and functional way of doing it? Or what of the three test stages you mention make our priority

Please switch to Firefox if you are in Chrome and not hearing the live current lecture.

Firmware group does all three of these test stages.  Quality tests only at system level.  Unit tests are limited unfortunately do to difficultly in implementing these.

Iron

What does software reliability mean? there is no wearout mechanism for software such as you would find for a bearing.

Iron

oops I mean all three types of test

Iron

we are in the process of writing a unit test suite for our embedded projects

Iron

I do most of my testing at the module level. The integration and system level usually works when modules work.

Iron

I have developed all three levels.  I set up unit tests for each subroutine, and then set up integration where they combine to work for major application functions, then full system testing.

 

integration and system

Iron

We spend a lot of time defining a testing procedure so that we can test after each change or modification to make susre nothig is broken.

 

Put a lot of time into defineing what inputs and outputs should do/not do.

 

Iron

I would like to include all stages in my design cycle but time and resources are limited and testing usually suffers.  But we are working on that to develop all three fully.

Iron

We do unit and system testing

Iron

We use all three. Unit test the fundamental and complex functions, integration tests, and system tests

Iron

Separate testers are great.  As you say, they will try things you never thought of doing.

Iron

Jacob, What is White Box Testing ?

Please switch to FF if on Chrome, you are not hearing the current live lecture.

Do unit level during dev as coding. Later some integration. System done after initial release by separate group.

Iron

I would say all three ways

Iron

All three cycles: we find the lowest cost solution is Unit testing while Integration is more costly and System testing is the most expensive solution. Failures discoverd during system testing are difficult to identify and harder to resolve.

Iron

We do manual testing at each level.  I havne't figure out how to automate much embedded testing.

Iron

Usually responsible for Unit Test.. then integration with HW.

Iron

Unit, integration, and system testing.  Test harnessing is part of the software design.

Iron

It also depends on how critical the project

Iron

Our primary testing is done on the system, with some unit tests.

Iron

We have a FPGA emulator system of the embedded system. Firmware is tested directly on it. We don't do any unit test, at least I didn't see any.

Iron

J's? actually use simular stages.

some Unit testing, but weekly Integration and  System testing

Iron

Our system is small enough that integration is essentially system test.  We do unit and sytem test.

Iron

We do integration and system testing.  I have recently started unit testing as I write more complex functions.

Iron

Some Unit, mostly integration & system.  Regression test

Iron

yes I have noticed the same thing here with firefox

Iron

All three, but not necessarily in a strict order

Iron

we used all 3 stages

Iron

We hit all, but spend less time on UNIT and more on SYSTEM

Iron

We are pretty good at Integration and System testing.  We could improve on unit testing.

Iron

System and Integration level testing

Iron

Unit + integration tests

 

Iron

Do some system testing.

Iron

All three.  Unit, Integration and system.

Iron

I have done all: Unit Testing, Integration and System Teseting in all the projects I have worked on.

Primarily function or Module

Iron

We hit all three (unit, integration, and system).

Iron

Unit-tests and integration tests

Iron

We try to test each module then all together.

 

Iron

We use all three types of testing, but rely mostly on system testing.

Iron

agile with all thre levels

 

Iron

all three stages - unit - integration - and system

In our case unit would be module

Iron

All 3 levels of testing

Iron

We do testing at all 3 levels.

Iron

We do system and integration, but not so much unit.

Iron

I include all three stages.

Gold

I use all three stages.

Iron

Don't wait till the end to do system testing.  Break out communication modules or memory access routins and test them separately.  The H/W does not always function as advertized of specified.

Iron

Agreed on Firefox.  Not sure why Chrome is misbehaving

Iron

Jacob I have written Firmware and Software Diagnostic code to Diagnose the software at the component and System level. Would you consider this type of code can be considered as a Test Code !

Question: Which of these 3 stages do you include in your own design cycle?

Blogger

So in my computer I am at the beggining of the lecture wihout means to catch up to real time!

 

Iron

your right fire fox is the way to go.

Iron

Firefox just started playing from start but I can't move forward anymore as I was able

Iron

for the first time in this series

Iron

Careful with the word "defect". If someone finds your word "defect" during a lawsuit discovery, they could say you had evidence your software was "defective".

Iron

yes finally Audio is working

Iron

using fault coud be confused with fault process in the  processor.

@jburgett: I may start using UDF.

@Kurting: how is the "Embedded World Mass" ? I would love to get there :)

Iron

Today is frustrating. Have to use Chrome just to see an audio bar. Post does not work in Chrome at all so i need to use Firefox for chatting. Arggh!

Iron

Hi from NJ! Audio working (IE)

Iron

Rather than use the word "Failure" I use UDF - Un-Documented Feature.

Iron

Is there a complete suite of tools for the whole development cycle or a piecemil group of tools for each stage of the development cycle.

Iron

Audio just kicked in for IE.

Iron

The Failure can also mean the software component did not performed the required function with accepted output

Hi, everybody!

I am sorry, I couldn´t attend the classes since Monday due to the Embedded World Mass in Nürnberg/Germany

Iron

In IE no audo slider control so not getting the audio.

Iron

I see a black bar in chrome but pressing where the play should be worked and I have audio.

Iron

got auto audio start in IE11 for first time in months.

@ CEC   Could you please tell us before the lecture starts which browser to use on that day

Iron

Its running on IE but there is some static. Worked perfectly fine for me in past lectures

Iron

my company is sucessfully blocking the audio button in IE. Its a flash widget.

Iron

can you recommend a good book on software testing, such as the test driven methodology you just mentioned?

Iron

Yesterday I did not have audio, but today is good so far.

Iron

Hello from Grayslake, IL.

Iron

Zwilrich - Firefox is working for me .

Iron

Working fine in Firefox for me. Audio auto-started as well.

Iron

DOes not work on IE for me no bar, Firefox and chrome played the radio message, but no sound after that

Iron

Hi from Azcapotzalco, DF, Mexico

Iron

It worked yesterday...you really broke it now

 

Iron

Works in IE  but not Firefox today.  I think this web site needs more software testing.

Iron

greeting from Midland Tx

 

Iron

Hitting stop gets rid of the second stream.

I think there are actually two instances up.

Iron

Audio started while I was going to the other room

Iron

Hello from Orange County

Iron

Does not work in Firefox, works in IE for me

Iron

I have the audio BUT

There is a "trailer" on the audio where in the background everything is repeating!

Iron

@drw36, try pressing the pause/play twice to refresh.  I had to do this repeadedly yesterday and finally I got a stream

Gold

audio started on its own in FF

Iron

FWIW, you can get an "un-employment discount" on the IEEE CSDP ($350 for on-line class & test at test facility)

Iron

audio live for me on Chrome

Gold

Ok, In firefox I see noi audio bar today, even after refresshes. WTF!

Iron

Audio started on its own 

 

Iron

Hello from Longmont, CO

Iron

Good afternoon from Minnetonka, MN.

Iron

Hello from Toronto, Ontario!

Iron
@drrowley_lpe: see computer.org for the IEEE administration of the CDSP.
Iron

Greetings and Felicitations from beautiful Desert Hot Springs!

@K-Dog, they're all downtown, but I could make it there.

Iron

Hello from Arlington Hts

Iron

yesterday I had some issues with Firefox too, until then it worked fine for me

Iron

Greetings from Waterloo, Ontario

 

Iron

Hello Seattle from Shelton.

Iron

Hello from snowy cold SE Lake Simcoe Ontario Canada. -15C

Iron

@Jeff K It should be up 8 minutes from your post.  Yesterday, it worked in Chrome for me but not in Firefox

Gold

jacop, who admins certified software development professional?

Lincoln NE says good afternoon

Iron

@rreay... a Boulders Coffee near you :-)

Iron

I thought this didn't work with Chrome.

Iron

Hello from Thornville, Ohio

Iron

and another from rochester.   We should start joining the conf from a bar (or coffee house)

 

Iron

Hi all - You should NOT see the audio bar on the page yet. Sincere apologies. We are working on it now.

I don't see the audio bar in Chrome yet.

Iron

Another Rochester Hello...

Iron

hello from Rochester, NY temp 17 windchill down to -15

Iron

Greetings from Plynouth, MN

Iron

Hello from Western PA

 

Iron

@StephMcGUBM

QQ: is the audio bar supposed to be up yet?

 

Iron

Greetings from Buffalo, NY!

Iron

Hi everyone - We will be going live 15 minutes early so that you all can test your audio stream prior to the start of the class at 11 PST/2 EST. You should see the audio bar at the top of the screen soon and please hit the play button. You should hear music playing.

I am here

I hope the sound works better today!

Iron

greetings from slc ut....

@CM:so when do we hear about the ieee hours earned, end of the semester?

 

hello from Mishawaka

 

Iron

You are eligible to earn IEEE Professional Development Hours by attending these courses and participating in the chat function. Additionally, we are no longer using the points system, offering "graduation", or giving grades. The IEEE hours are taking the place of that. There are some important things for you to know about earning the hours. The most important ones are that you need to attend these courses live, you need to attend a minimum of two of them per semester, you need to fill out a course evaluation form within 2 weeks of the end of the class, you need to attend 4 out of the 5 classes per course, and you need to participate in the chat function every day you attend. Please click on the link at the top of this page that says "How do I earn IEEE professional development hours" to read all of these important details and more.

 

Blogger

Hello from Rochester, NY...

Iron

@1yljunkmann

Try using any of the live streams on:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/live

 

 

Iron

hi hi hi from Guadalajara Mexico!

Looking forward for today

Hello from sunny Chicago.

Blogger

Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY and be sure to follow @designnews and @DigiKeyCEC on Twitter for the latest class information. We encourage you to tweet about today's class using #DigiKeyCEC.

Blogger

Why not make the audio stream available 30 minutes from now so we can test our system and make necessary adjustments

junkman

Hello from Long Island, NY

Iron

Good afternoon from NJ

Iron

Good morning from Reno, NV.

Iron

@D.Jack - Hey, I know that stuff!  It's called... ummm... it's been a while, don't worry, it will come to me.

Iron

Silicon Valley is awash in some strange thin clear fluid ?!?!?!

Iron

The streaming audio player will appear at the top of this web page when the show starts at 2 PM Eastern time today. When you see it, click on the play button to start the audio. Note however, that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts, the audio bar doesn't appear or you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. If that doesn't work, try using Firefox or Google Chrome as your browser. Some users experience audio interruptions with IE. Also, make sure your flash player is updated with the current version. If that doesn't work, the class will be archived immediately following our live taping. You shouldn't experience any problems with the audio when listening on-demand.

Blogger

Good Afternoon from Boston, MA

@bobybacs, I don't like the bold idea. Could degenerate into anarchy and shouting.  Let's leave bold for the moderators and bloggers.

Gold

AA: @jjrochow@ra.rockwell.com - Sounds good to me.  I have used ?? in the past but to keep with a system, I'm willing to go along with QQ:.

Gold

Coming in from another chilly day in Chicago.

Iron

Hello from Montana.  @Jacob, I really like your articles at your website www.beningo.com under the Design Articles tab. Those are a good supplement to this class.

Gold

Hello from cold Minnesota.

Iron

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

another suggestion would be to write question with bold

Iron

hello everyone from Timisoara, Romania

Iron

AA: No. But feel free to start your posts with Q:

QQ: Did we decide to use "QQ:" and "AA:" to make this chat more useable?

Hello from blizzardy Rockwell Automation.

have a look for tody's slides

Iron

Howdy from Houston - Sunny & mild - 58F / 14C

Iron

today's session will cover software testing fundamentals-great!!

Iron

Good Morning from Ghana

Iron


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