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PFStaats
User Rank
Iron
Mandates
PFStaats   4/26/2014 9:15:04 AM
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Wade Newton said, "You can mandate supply, but you cannot mandate demand."  Apparently he has not been paying attention.  This ship sailed with the Affordable Care Act. If we can be forced to purchase insurance policies with coverage that we don't want or need, then what prevents the government from doing that with cars?

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Prius, Insight
Bunter   3/5/2014 7:31:03 AM
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Good thoughts Charles.

It does seem that the idea that customers might like an affordable, practical family car with the mileage of a motorcycle was enough to move on.

Chuckle. 

Dennis

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Prius, Insight
Charles Murray   3/4/2014 5:59:43 PM
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I'm not terribly conversant with the history of CARB and its relationship to the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight, but I know that both of those cars started in Japan, and then were brought over to the U.S. At the time, I don't believe CARB had a program for partial ZEVs (PZEVs), only for pure electric cars, which means that neither of those vehicles would have qualified for credit. To be sure, I called Honda, and spokesman Chris Martin told us that the Insight was not a product of California legislation. "We marketed it nationwide," he said. "If it was simply a means to achieve a credit, we more than likely would have marketed it only in California."

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
patb2009   2/28/2014 11:34:47 PM
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Lou

 

sometimes regs are technology forcing.

 

And what you deride as the "Failed California Initiative of the 1990s"

produced the Toyota Prius and Honda Insight.  

 

Toyota hopped on that bronco and now they sell over a million Hybrid

synergy drive vehicles per year, and it's their top seller.

 

California is now trying to force that again onto all manufacturers.

 

if they succeed the the world will be better

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: fuel economy standards are the way to go
patb2009   2/28/2014 11:26:20 PM
NO RATINGS
I think Hydrogen fuel cells will be a dead end,  and a poor investment.

 

Battery Tech, Battery Performance, Battery charge rates, Battery Discharge rates,

Battery Energy Density, Battery Cost are all racing forward,

Tesla has demonstrated a nationwide 100 KW charger network and is demoing

250 KW chargers and battery swap systems.  

 

 

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Just a grammar nit, Mr. Murray
Charles Murray   2/28/2014 6:49:06 PM
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Thank you, CharlesM. You are correct.

BRedmond
User Rank
Silver
Re: What Happens if?
BRedmond   2/28/2014 12:17:28 PM
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"You can mandate supply, but you cannot mandate demand."  They are threatening to fine manufacturers if they can't convince customers to buy ZEVs.  Commenters have suggested that it could drive manufacturers to sell at a loss or leave the California market.  In a story about the Tesla "Gigafactory," it was indicated that the result would be a "mass market" vehicle with a price tag in the $30-$40k range.  I would really like to pay less than that for my next car.  If I can get one with an ICE for less, then that's what I'll buy.

Also, range limits are real.  My commute is 5 miles one way; very doable with an EV.  However, my work takes me throughout the DC metro area and throughout the Mid-Altantic at times.  Personally, I live in suburban DC and my family is in suburban Philly.  Do they really think that I'm going to buy a car that forces me to make a stopover to recharge?  The other "green" alternative would be to spend hours longer riding Metro to Union Station, Amtrack to 30th St. Station and then the Paoli Local to the burbs, where I would need a ride to my destination.  Not happening.

CharlesM
User Rank
Silver
Just a grammar nit, Mr. Murray
CharlesM   2/28/2014 11:00:09 AM
NO RATINGS
California says it won't let big automakers flaunt the law. 

I think you mean flout, not flaunt.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Just another Tax.
Charles Murray   2/27/2014 7:29:01 PM
NO RATINGS
Bunter, you're right that the poor aren't getting much from this at the moment. The logic behind it is to drive production volume up, so that automakers can benefit from economies of scale, and ultimately sell electric cars to the masses. The problem is that history tells us that it's difficult to put EVs on such a schedule.

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Just another Tax.
Bunter   2/27/2014 2:25:18 PM
Right about the hidden taxes also.

Print money, drive inflation, everybody pays more, govt does better(ish).  Poor and middle class hardest hit.

Legislate to drive up energy costs. Blame "Big Oil".  Poor and middle class hardest hit.

Funny how the chaps claiming to be for "the little guy" often pursue policies that cost the poor the most (but are not easily traceable to the politician like a per se tax is).  Are they stupid, cynical or all of the above (I pick all of...).

 

Chuckle,

Dennis

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