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rosek
User Rank
Silver
Re: Political move
rosek   2/7/2014 10:30:37 AM
NO RATINGS
Actually, the preferred propulsion method for panel trucks (refuse haulers, delivery trucks & etc.) is a hybrid system - perhaps using CNG for the ICE. These vehicles have a mobility profile that works well for a hybrid; lots of starting/stopping for energy recovery and also for a fair amount of idle reduction.

Class 8, long haul trucks may be good candidates for CNG given their mobility profile.

POV's have quite varied mobility profiles (city and highway driving) so CNG seems like a better fit here as well.

rosek
User Rank
Silver
Re: Political move
rosek   2/7/2014 10:30:35 AM
NO RATINGS
Actually, the preferred propulsion method for panel trucks (refuse haulers, delivery trucks & etc.) is a hybrid system - perhaps using CNG for the ICE. These vehicles have a mobility profile that works well for a hybrid; lots of starting/stopping for energy recovery and also for a fair amount of idle reduction.

Class 8, long haul trucks may be good candidates for CNG given their mobility profile.

POV's have quite varied mobility profiles (city and highway driving) so CNG seems like a better fit here as well.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Amused.
William K.   2/7/2014 9:55:29 AM
As they typically do, our government folks will undoubtedly pas some kind of legislation without giving adequate thought to the secondary consequences of what they do. CNG as a fuel is quite well understood, as is liquid propane as a fuel. But the two fuels are not interchangeable in most systems. It may be a good fuel for large trucks operating in cities, but the energy density may not make sense for long distance trucking. That choice will require some study.

Probably the very best choice wo8uld be for a fedral mandate that the EPA not pass any more of their really stupid regulations in the area of CNG fueled vehicles. That organization has figured out that unless they keep making new rules they will not be needed, and their empire and power will shrink.

But I also see the presidents remarks as an attempt at distraction from other less pleasent subjects, such as our nations sliding away from being a major world power. But that is an entirely separate discussion topic.

LetoAtreidesII
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Political move
LetoAtreidesII   2/7/2014 9:43:40 AM
Yes,  It is politics because that is what politicians do sadly, and I mean this on both sides here not just one.

As for goverment help it has a long history of styming true innovation as it has 3 major flaws that end up hurting true innovation and advancement.

1. Funding your freinds or district were you need help.  Just look at the electric car industry, solar, wind.  The huge money goes to buddies of politician or were it makes a good photo op or will it helps a rep or senator district that supported you on a project.  NOT to the best choice.  And when these guys fail we all loose money.  Even Tesla is a joke without goverment kickbacks on every car they sell they would have to closed shop.   see link   http://articles.latimes.com/2013/may/05/business/la-fi-electric-cars-20130506

2.  Goverment is slow to act and picks what they think is a winner and will not change they shower $$$$'s and regulation to help it even after it has proven it is a bad idea or not the solution.   Ethanol is a great example for years we have pored $$$$ and goverment regs to help a product that should have failed on it own years ago

3.  Goverment stymes true innovation by picking a winner or path and then forcing by way of grants and regs us down that path.  Classic example is the Pure EV.   This have been pushed so hard by goverment $$$ and by regulation (mandating XX EV by X date, making auto pay penalties for not having enough EV in their fleet) it slows or stops innovation on autos that could truely reduce overall oil usage.   How many Hybrids or other improvements could have been designed in the chevy fleet if they did not waste billions design a Volt that sold 55K in US since it started 2010, (comparision in the same time Ford sold over 2.1million F-150's).  I would venture Fords new slightly lighter F-150 design will save 10X the oil that the Volts do.  Tell me than were is the money better spent.

I addition  Any vechile could be made a hybrid and reduce oils usage.  or NG which is produced in North America and creates jobs here.

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Amused.
Bunter   2/7/2014 9:41:43 AM
NO RATINGS
Hey GTO,

Yup.  Don't see any problem with those thoughts.

We have the "Big Intrusive Gummit Party" and the "Freakin' Huge Gummit as All-Mother Party".  Nice.

Take care.

Dennis

VadimR
User Rank
Gold
Commuter
VadimR   2/7/2014 9:16:20 AM
NO RATINGS
My commute is 15 miles round trip and I would be more than happy to have a tiny commuter like the Elio with CNG power that has a 20 mile range that I recharge every night!  No need to carry the heavy fuel with me for a 200mile range when I only need 15 per day.
I like the dual fuel models where you have the flexibility to use both fuels based on what is available.

GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Amused.
GTOlover   2/7/2014 9:09:51 AM
Dennis, cynicism doesn't even begin to describe the feeling one has after the tired rehash of SOTU speech. Every time energy is mentioned by this administration, they say one thing but do another.

I suspect that CNG ideas would move quickly through political processes if the same buearacrats thought they could make money with out actually doing any work (see Solyndra). Everything in DC has become about the payback to the political elites. Meanwhile, we hope that our electric bill stabilizes after the onslaught of regulations related to a natural by-product of simply breathing!

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Political move
Bunter   2/7/2014 9:06:32 AM
HI CHarles,

Good point.  Actually the history of gov't intervention overall is not great.  One example, I recently read an account of the early railroads going west.  Gov't subsidies produced shoddy infrastructure and stagnant prices, essentially a monopoly situation.  Once private enterprise stepped up, built their own lines west, many of the subsidized railroads failed in competition. Even with the Gov pouring money into them.  Similar things happened in shipping and many other industries.

Subsidised "businesses" tend to lose competitive focus and become very inefficient.  They get focused on how to get the next grant, not on how to improve their system and product.

It seems axiomatic to me that if a business "needs" Gov't help to survive it is proof that it should not survive.  We should let somebody better do it and not waste the resources.

<Rant mode off>

;^)

Dennis

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Amused.
Bunter   2/7/2014 8:55:18 AM
Don't worry Liz, cynicism is natural to anyone that is awake in the political process.

To hear Obama push NG while fighting drilling on gov't land is rich. (The current drilling boom is driven by private investment on private land).  Can't remember his stance on fracking-suspect he is con or unwilling to endorse, it is a political pariah with the left.  But that is a guess. 

It would not shock me at all to find plenty of folks who are pro-CNG and anti-fracking. Probably just time filler in the speech. 

I think CNG does have potential, espesially for heavy trucks.  There are infrastructure barriers but they are far smaller than for EV charging.  IIRC some companies with defined local routes are already switching to CNG for their trucks.  Hydraulic hybrid systems show some real potential for stop-and-go trucks like delivery or garbage pick-up.

Personally I think the best current scientific projections point to a near term cooling cycle for the planet, say for 20-30 years, (and a cyclical nature to temp overall) and I suspect in 10 years a great deal of this current hand wringing will have ended, and professional enviromental activists will have moved to a new reason to panic.  Chuckle.

Stay groovy kids.

Dennis

Daniyal_Ali
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Political move
Daniyal_Ali   2/7/2014 4:31:16 AM
NO RATINGS
I think it's a good move, if implemented for the heavy duty vehicles Liz. EVs are good for personal use but when it comes to the heavy duty vehicles, natural gas is a better alternative. There are a lot of factors that make natural gas a comparatively better option considering the commercial vehicles.
But you never know, it can be a political move as well, only time will tell.

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