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No indoor - residential testing

Not doing throughput measurements

Not used speed-test for WiFi

No indoor or outdoor testing

Very good lecture, Thanks Fanny

Iron

thanks again and i am looking forward to tomorrow

Iron

Thanks and good day.

Iron

thank you all for attending

Blogger

Is the forming accomplished entirely with amplitude and phase adjustments of the multiple transmitter signals?

Iron

Very interesting lecture, thank you very much

Iron

thanks fanny, rob, digikey and ieee

The mobile device would need to be adaptive on the beamforming.  This takes time and may not 'reset' to the best orientation.

Iron

Great lecture, Fanny. Thanks to everyone who attended and participated with comments.

Blogger

yes - ideally we want beamforming on a mobile device.  hard to do at 700 MHz where LTE typically operates because antenna elements are big and each TX draws battery power.

Blogger

Fanny, your thoughts: In a mobile device, the fact that the orientation of the device is unknown, could even be an argument FOR using beamforming. The pattern of the antenna could be varied according to position (assuming we can move the beam to any point in 3 dimensions).

Iron

Horn antenas are broadband and directional.  they are good for test chamber applications because of their wide bandwidth and strong field in the direction of the DUT.  Vivaldi cross polarized antennas are another good alternative.

Blogger

on a mobile device you may not have enough transmitters to do beamforming but the mobile device can respond to the base station with channel sounding results and the base station would then know how to beamform to that mobile device.

Blogger

why is the horn antenna used mostly?

Iron

I would think you do not want beam forming on a mobile device as orientation is unknown.

Iron

correct - we can form a beam with small apperture printed antennas.  the higher the frequency the smaller the antennas and the easier to do  beamforming.

Blogger

yes - we ship the octoBox MPE testbed fully assembled and integrated with octoBox chambers.

Blogger

We can form the beam to some extent using even the small printed antennae, on a PCB, isn't that correct?

Iron

could beamforming be done at the receaver?

do you use your mpe in conjunction with your chamber to measure tis/trp and antenna correlation? also, what is your mu? 

Iron

This field is very new to me but my experience with MEMS microphone arrays helps me understand antenna directionality. My experience in aircraft flutter testing helps me understand multi-path and mathematical transforms.

Gold

horn antenns do focus the beam and they could be used in MIMO systems, but they do tend to be big.  i have only seen horns used in test chambers and point-to-point links.

Blogger

tomorrow we will look at MCS (modulation coding scheme) adatation, which is more complex.

Blogger

couldnt we accomplish beamforming by using horn antennas? is the only concern antenna size on device?

Iron

we can and should develop better adaptation algorithms

Blogger

Yes there is a frequency dependent formula for free space path loss vs. range and some ballpark adjustements for the range in the presence of multipath indoors and outdoors.

Blogger

Is that data rate adaptation behavior unavoidable? Or could we develop an improved ada[tation that could "learan" how to get max throughput again?

Iron

Thank you, and a question:  marketing *always* wants range numbers; is there any accepted (or, to your mind, acceptable) way to translate test results and chamber testing into LOS and NLOS ranges?

 

Iron

Data rate is set by the transmitting device.

Blogger

data rate is typically set based on the packet error rate

 

Blogger

the reason we don't recover peak data rate is that the data rate adaptation is non-optimum and stateful.  We can recover it only after power resetting the device.

Blogger

Funny thanks for awesome lection! Thanks for Digi-Key!

Iron

Thanks Fanny, Rob & Digikey.

Iron

Fanny, slide 17, Rate Adaptation - Please comment again briefly, why does the peak data rate not recover even after the channel impairment vanishes?

Iron

thank you for another great presentation 

Iron

Thank you Fanny, Design News, and Digi-Key

Gold

thanks Fanny and Rob

Iron

thank you Fanny and Rob

Iron

No but we desperately want to work with devices that do

Iron

doesn't have beamforming here

 

Iron

I haven't used beamforming yet but have been considering it for a long time

Iron
Not using it yet but expect to with 802.11ac implementation
Iron

fan's? find interesting, beamforming, but no project yet..

We don't have ny beamforming capability in our equipment, yet. Would like to move into this area.

Iron

not working with beam forming ... very interesting subject.

Iron

not sure, but I think no beamforming

Iron

We're now on slide 23.

Blogger

Device dosen't do beamforming

Iron

Voice getting hard to hear...

 

Iron

Fanny's question:

 Does your device have beamforming capability?

Blogger

We're now on slide 22.

Blogger

We're now on sldie 21.

Blogger

We're now on slide 20.

Blogger

We're now on slide 19.

Blogger

We have done test using an rf attenuator and cables. With iw_scan (Linux), we can monitor the rf signal and data rate

I used data throutput at at our WiFi tests

Iron
Mistype on slide 65-QAM
Iron

I usually do not perform this function.

Iron

Not done any testing. So no access to data

Iron

Testing WiFi - we know the RSSI but not the specific rate. Can test with the rate locked down if necessary.

Iron

We have monitored RSSI and some other metrics provided by the cell carrier and modem when monitoring Over The Air performance and impairments.

Iron

i measure rssi only.

Iron

Yes. although the sampling interval is quite long

 

Iron

If the algorithm prevents full recovery, does that indicate a bad algorithm?

Iron

No experience in this area

Gold

only tested WiFi using wifi app on smart phone

Iron

I do not have a test bed.

Iron

We're now on slide 18.

Blogger

Fanny's question:

Do you have access to information such as data rate or MCS in the DUT while you test?

Blogger

WiFi testing, we typically stream volumes of data over a timer period and look for loss of data etc using proprietary metrics.

Iron

We're now on slide 17.

Blogger

We're now on slide 16.

Blogger

I have tested my WiFI in my house using a ping test for baud rate measruemnt.

very interesting lecture

Iron

many objecs and even people affect the measurement

 

Iron

Is there a standard 'master'?

Iron

We're now on slide 15.

Blogger

have tested WiFi moving round the house

Iron

Yes in industrial environments.

Iron

Not yet but may in future.

Iron

We're now on slide 14.

Blogger

no, only indoor chamber test.

 

Iron

fan's? any tests have been manual LOS.  unless used vendors results.

not currently working on an application in wireless.

Not done this testing yet

 

Iron

Not done any WiFI testing

Iron

Have tested wi-fi by moving device throughout building

Iron

This type of testing is what I usually do.

Iron

We're now on slide 13.

Blogger

have not done this testing, but this is exactly the testing I came to learn about

Iron

Sorry, another day of ISP incompetence. Cannot hear the audio.

yes have access to RSSI datat but do not use all times

Iron

Fanny's question:

This is a very common test method for Wi-Fi testing.  Have you done testing like this?

Blogger

We do not have a testbed or done any measurement

Iron

We have access to RSSI, when doing testing of cellular modems.

Iron

propriatary applications

Iron

Yes. RSSI DFE, FEC results

Iron

i test wifi amplifier indoor outdoor in a city and forest

Iron

I nave not done any throughput measurements

Iron

rqadiational paterns but rather specific point.  Have not done outdoor testing in long time.

Iron
Ixia-Veriwave uses a client app installed on the mobile device to collect details
Iron

We're now on sldie 12.

Blogger

I am very interested in performing thruput measurements, but I have not done them

Iron

Fanny's question:

In your testbed do you have access to RSSI information or to any other diagnostics like packets received, etc.?

Blogger

have several versions of sniffers

Iron

have not done any throughput testing

Iron

I use IxChariot to measure thruput for my WiFi Decices (AP vs WSTB)

 

Iron

Have not done throughput measurements

Iron

Have done open-air testing.

Iron

Rotate. Use proprietary tools, iPerf and Chariot depending on test requirement.

Iron

We're now n slide 11.

Blogger

I haven't used any of the troughput measuring utilities mentioned

Iron

fan's? have not performed ant sim.

Only doing full rotation at cert lab

Iron

Fanny's question:

What application do you use for throughput measurements?  Do you use IxChariot?  Do you test LTE? Wi-Fi? Other?

Blogger

Full 360 rotation, multiple test points

 

Iron

Were now on slide 10.

Blogger

i did not  performed antenna field simulations or measurements on a wireless device.

Iron

measured field by walking around device

Iron

fan's? just measure input power at receaver in different places is only test ever done.

using subject devices

Iron

Not done any antenna field simulation/test

Iron

We're now on slide 9.

Blogger

How does the Octobox prevent reflections?

Iron

No quantitative testing

Gold

no antenna field sim or measurements

Iron

Test = it works or it does not provide service

Iron

Meaured in anechoic chamber

Iron

i use a field meter around a device

 

Iron

take measurements vs orientation

Iron

Typically testing on actual articles

Iron

We're now on slide 8.

Blogger

Fanny's question:

Have you ever performed antenna field simulations or measurements on a wireless device?  If yes, please share details?

Blogger

Running a little late, but I am here now!...

 

yes I've used a ping test to check my internet speed conntection.

as for testing - used open air only.

Iron

We're now on slide 7.

Blogger

i dont use that site.

 

Iron

yes, used speedtest.net many times from it's start

Iron

Speedtest is an ap on my iPad & iPhone

Iron

have used it but not for this application

Iron

We're now on slide 6.

Blogger
Yep, very handy tool speed test.net
Iron

Have used speedtest.net for testing cable modems

Iron

Yes for corporate network testing.

Iron

have used speedtest for wired ISP

Iron

Yes, I have used Speedtest

Iron

have used speedtest.net

Iron

Only for internet web

 

Iron

I have used speedtest.net

Iron

I haven't used this particular site.

Iron

have not used the speed test site

Iron

fan's? open air/bench testing only. but have had manufactor do a chamber test.

Not used any environment since I have done no testing

Iron

We're now on slide 5.

Blogger

Yes, I have used speedtest.net

Gold

have used it, but not this way

Iron

Conducted, outdoor LOS, indoor NLOS.  Some OTA shielded enclosure.

Iron

Fanny's question:

Have you used speedtest.net?

Blogger

field strength meter for ham radio activites

Iron

emission test with chamber

Iron

have not done testing

Iron

We use all types of test environments.

Iron

not testing today. Learning here.

Gold

We're now on slide 4.

Blogger

only emissions testing has been performed both in chamber and at OATS

Iron

Fanny's question:

What test environments as defined here have you used and what are you using today?

Blogger

have not done testing

 

Iron

My experience is mostly in chamber for EMI.

Iron

I have only done outdoor testing.

Iron

 

Indoor testing only just to verify that communications are acceptable.

Iron

We're now on slide 3.

Blogger

fan's? yes, blue tooth device. ended moving ant away from processor.

Open air, indoors and outdoors.

Iron

I've done both indoors and open air, on emissions testing.  Open air is becoming more difficult due to environmental noise.  Rotating platform.

Iron

No major testing, just watch the bars

and I got a better phone

Iron

Given our application, we test everywhere and in as many different locations as possible, and especially outdoors.

Iron

I have not done any testing

Iron

Tested indoors with lots of space around equipment. Also tested outdoors in parking lot.

Iron

I've done drive testing, outdoor testing with a cart and indoor testing walking or on a cart.

Iron
Carried devices along with wireless sniffer or Ixia-Veriwave test gear
Iron

We did outdoor testing at a remote facility in Boardman OR. There was very little interference.

 

yes - ham radio - no digital

Iron

yes, drive testing. and open air testing

Iron

Have not done outdoor testing.

Iron

No, mostly chamber testing

Iron

Fanny's question:

Have you done indoor or outdoor open air testing?  And if yes, what method do you use?  Cart? Drive testing?

Blogger

Have not done testing

Gold

We're now on slide 2.

Blogger
Glad to be back for day 4
Iron

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hello from Mishawaka

 

Iron

greetings from slc ut......

Greetings from Bucharest!

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Blogger

Another set of really good slides.  Definitions of the acronyms were in the previous slides.

Iron

Good evening from southeastern Europe

Iron

Good afternoon from a sunny and fluffy Minnetonka, MN.

Iron

hi from cloudy SoCal

Iron

-Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

Hello from Portland Oregon

Iron

Hello from Sunny SE Lake Simcoe Ontario Canada -- except for the clouds and blowing snow.

 

Iron

from NW Montana: I just finished snow plowing my 1/4 mile driveway and 1 mile Forest Service Road. The USFS doesn't maintain our access road in winter. My Great Dane loved the ride.

Gold

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Blogger

Hello, From Salt Lake City, Utah

Iron

Hello, from Slt Lack City, Utah

Iron

Looking for another great lecture from Fanny.

Iron

How is everyone doing?

Iron

Hello from Summerville, SC

Iron

Hello from the Niagara Frontier.

Iron

Hello from El Paso, TX

Iron

-Be sure to follow @designnews and @DigiKeyCEC on Twitter for the latest class information. We encourage you to tweet about today's class using #DigiKeyCEC.

Blogger

Hello everyone, looking forward for todays lecture

Iron

Slides look super as usual

Iron

-Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

Good morning from Albuquerque, New Mexico

Blogger


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