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Thanks a lot Fred for the answer! My concerns are not related to burst transfer but to response time... for example if I am controlling an industrail process with some small sampling period (high sampling rate), and i fire an interrupt to the usb in order to do something on the andoprid device... let's say some intenisive processing, making use of its GPU... then, i couldn't increase the sampling rate more than 10hz (100 ms perioad)... in your slides, let's say, i'm interested in the time elapsed between two succesive call of dataPipe.write function ... are they be able to respect the deadlines? Thank you again for the presentation and answers!

Have a good evening all of you.

Iron

Yes I think I understand. You say CCS is running inside MPLAB X environment. ? Is MPLAB X running inside B4A ? so that makes the B4A IDE integral? Thanks again Fred until tomorw. I'll repost this in Thursday's Post thread of comments.

Thanks for coming to "see" me today.

If there are no unanswered questions, I'm OUT!

See you tomorrow..

Blogger

OK.. Last call for answerhol..

Blogger

@CLASS

Did I answer eveyone's questions?

 

Blogger

@grandview999

The Vinco board uses the largest Vinculum II (64 pin).  From what I recall, the Vinco board has some permanent pin assignments that the larger eval board does not.

Blogger

@Fred.

Thank you Fred. till tomorrow.

Iron

ok I got you thank you..

in my app (flight simulation) im using an Ardnio MAX256 as it has LOTS of I/O and the other end is a Lunix/PC 

for every byte the Ardnio send you get 4-6bytes back you can see more of the app:

http://www.element14.com/community/people/phoenixcomm/blog

thanks again Cris H.

@peterb

The firmware is written using CCS C.  I run CCS C inside of MPLAB X to use the MPLAB X IDE instead of the CCS C IDE.  MPLAB X instructs the CCS C compiler and linker to act on the CCS C source code.  The compiled CCS C code is then programmed into the PIC using a PicKit3 that is also under the control of MPLAB X. The PicKit3 attaches at the lower left of the board via the ICSP commector.

Blogger

@Fred Eady

Roger that; thanks.  I was just trying to sort out if I really needed to acquire a Vinculum setup, but I think I can make use of existing dev kits or even quick prototyped boards.

Iron

@Fred Eady

What are the pros of using the ViniculumII V2-EVAL motherboard versus the VINCO Arduino compatible board ? Can you write the same type of USB/SPI/PWM/... VOS code for each, or is the VINCO restricted to Arduino APIs ?

@gbabecki

Any board you can hang USB on can be used.  That is correct.

Blogger

@phoenixcomm

In this case, the byte going to the PIC carries the virtual LED illumination status.  The byte coming from the PIC carries the actual bluLED illumination status.  It is just to demonstrate how to communicate the status between the Android device and the PIC device.

Blogger

?? How do you load PIC firmware you showed on slide 16?

Iron

@peterpb

What do you wish to know about slide 16?

Blogger

@Fred Eady

Random development platform question: I should be able to use (roughly) any PIC development board I have laying around that either supports USB or even a simpler board plus a USB-UART bridge chip to port your examples and create my own extensions; does that sound accurate?

Iron

@WherleyBird

B4A comes with an integral IDE.

Blogger

why do you send a char from android to pic and then return the char?

 

@ginomai

CCS has built-in functions that allow you to code without having to load each and every bit in each and every register your code touches.  CCS  C will also run within the MPLAB X IDE.  CCS C will allow you to twist every little bit knob there is as well.  In the end, there are no differences in using CCS versus using XC compilers as you can make it as hard or as easy as you want using CCS C or you can make it as hard or as easy as you want using XC compillers.  By "hard" I mean keep manual watch over every little bit in your code. The XC compilers are very easy to use as they have access to the Microchip peripheral libraries that are made up of built-in fuctions. If you want to use the Microchip Application Libraries, it is easier to use the XC compilers as the example code is written using the XC compilers. Or, you can port the MAL library code to CCS C. The bottom line is that it all comes down to what you are most  comfortable with.

Blogger

??? Slide 16, PIC firmware. 

Iron

parts are AVR for messing with switches ect..

TI Sitara 

begalbord

@FredEady

What does OTG mean?

Iron

@EmbedXControls

The link is at the beginning of today's chat.

Blogger

@EmbedXControls

You've got it! That is exactly how it works.

Blogger

@dpalu2

Sorry, I have not done any research in that area.

However, I can tell you that it totally depends on the Android devices's processor and the capabilities of the USB front-end. 

Blogger

@edaverill

I don't understand your 2nd Android question.

Blogger

@edaverill

Which ones?

Blogger

@peterpb

Which firmware?

Blogger

@CLASS

Did everyone get the answer on the OTG cable?

If not..

Simply ground the ID/Sense pin, which is the second from the top in the slide picture.

Blogger

@EmbedXControls

Nope.  Visual Designer sets the attributes of the display, buttons and widgets used in the Activity displays. B4A code is then written to manipulate these diaplay, button and widget attributes programatically.

Blogger

@scaletta

It really depends on the interface IC's max baud rate as the Android device is designed to be used as a native USB device.

Blogger

I saw it with the connector soldered on the picture on the edtp site.

Iron

@EdB_Vt

I used to sell them but there wasn't enough interest.  So, they are simply internal use boards now. EDTP is no longer in the mail order electronic gadget business.

Blogger

@78RPM

Short the ID/Sense pin (unused pin the the Mini-B connectr) to ground.

Blogger

@cghaba

Using MPLAB X, CCS C Compiler and a PicKIT3. The 6-pin PicKit3 ICSP interface is in the lower left corner.

Blogger

@JimmyD

Load B4A Bridge on your Android tablet.  That will allow you to debug and download your B4A apps in real time on the tablet. 

Blogger

I think I may have the anwser to my own question "? So B4A codes and compiles basic for Adnroid but ? what IDE tools were used to write source code and run as firmware on the Adroid device?" Code Composer Studio from TI?

@dhajicek

See the @EmbedXControls answer.

Blogger

@pjoconn

The source links are in the beginning of the chat area.  There are 3 so far.. xxxx-class1, xxxx-class2 and xxxx-class3.

Some of the bitmaps came with the Vinculum II demos.  You can make the jellybean buttons with photo shop.

Search on " how to make jellybean buttons".

Blogger

thanks Fred on your answer to how to make OTG cable

@EmbedXControls

Simplly short the ID/Sense pin to ground to force the Android device to enter OTG Host mode.

Search on "How to make an OTG cable".

Blogger

thanks again to Fred, Rich, Digikey and Ieee....

@gamatec@email.com

Yes.. the B4A folks would not release code that has not been throughly tested.

Blogger

So B4A codes and compiles basic for Adnroid but ? what IDE tools were used to write source code and run as firmware on the Adroid device? Thanks!

?? What would the advantage be of using CCS C vice the MPLAB X IDE and compiler suite?

Iron

@max.nicolae

USB can fire more data in 1ms than any normal microcontroller can handle. USB dataflow depends on the type of endpoint you use. For instance, you can set a bulk in endpoint to transfer 64-byte packets in every transfer.

Higher speed USB implementations can fire 512-byte packets in the same timeframe. Plus the packets can be buffered.  The USB host runs the show and everything has to be coordinated with the USB host's scheduling.

Blogger

Have not used USB bridge.

Iron

@ginamai

CCS C is a PIC C compiler.  You can get more information at:

www.ccsinfo.com

Blogger

Digikey URL for ViniculumII Daughtercard:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/V2-EVAL-EXT64/768-1059-ND/2285988

@gamatec@email.com

Call susb.RequestPermission

Blogger

QUESTION: Do you use USB-to-UART Bridge ICs? If so, which brand.

I have not, but had to download the Prolific driver for a PIC programmer that I bought.

Iron

@EmbedXControls

Yes. The FT232RL is a USB-to-UART Bridge IC.

Blogger

Fred, Can you send us the link to the while PIC MCU firmware and the Android side applicate code for this class, like you did for the last class.

thanks

@EmbedXControls

Yes.. The Enable command allows the Connect button to fire click events when depressed.

Blogger

thanks for clarifying my question on Basic programming syntax. The follow up questions is.

So B4A compiles the Basic syntax program into JAVA then compiles that to Android runnable executable file ?

@schneid799

The bug can be easily squashed by writing exit code that kills the Android app and resets the microcontroller firmware.

Blogger

Digikey URLs:

ViniculumII - http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/V2-EVAL/768-1062-ND/2285985

VINCO (Arduino-compat) - http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/VNCLO-MB1A/768-1088-ND/2498969

Thank-you Fred and Digi-Key.

Iron

Question: This may have been metioned earlier, what is the estimate on the amount CPU resources that an Android device would use if doing constant USB transfers?

Iron

@dgrinch

They all work great.  It's like buying a car.  You end up driving the vehicle that feels the best to  you.

Blogger

I have not used the CCS C cmpiler

??Do we fill the evaluation form per session or for the whole series

 

Iron

Down the hump, heading into the weekend. Thanks Fred.

@EmbedXControls

Don't get Visual Basic confused with B4A.  The syntax is similar but the end product is different.  Visual Basic compiles for Windows and B4A compiles for Android. There is a difference reference in the B4A documentation that points out the syntax differences in VB and B4A.

Blogger

What are the Real-Time constrains of Android in terms of asynchronous communication on USB? Or, in other terms, what is the minimum time below which the android device will miss USB interrupts, will miss deadlines

@DGriffin, Go to the right of the Digi-Key CEC logo near the top of the screen and click on "Archived Classes."

Platinum

but i currently don't any projects/devices to program using KEIL uVision 4

QUESTION: What is your favorite PIC microcontroller?

I've used only the PIC16F73 so far.

QUESTION: Have you used the CCS PIC C Compiler?

No I have not used it.

Iron

Thanks for the presentation Fred

THanks again Fred and Design News

Fred, great class. Gives me several ideas for a current project, been trying to decide on the UI and control aspects. May now go with Android over usb. Thx.

Iron

I use CCS IDE to code, dowload and debug MSP430 devices and I've installed KEIL uVision 4

Seems possible to use 2nd android device as target for first 3 classes -- yes?

Iron

@EmbedXControls

The Prolific device is just another brand of USB-to-UART Bridge device.

It does the same work as all of the other listed devices.

Blogger

# where are the presentations archived?

Iron

@GUDDU301  in Memphis, TN  Please contact me in Memphis at leo.sieben@gmail.com

Iron

Would love to have digi-key ordering info for target and target development tools.

Iron

??? How do you load firmware?

Iron

Thanks Fred for a good presentation.

Thanks again Fred, Rich, Steph, and Digi-Key

Iron

Is the edtp site down ?.  I cannot access this website!!!.

ditto on the OTG device questions

Iron

See you Thursday, Fred

 

Iron

Good lecture.  Thanks

Iron

Fred so the Visiual Designer uses Basic Programming Code Syntax and semantics ?

What is the fasted buad rate you can use that will work on most android devices?

Iron

How can I obtain one of these boards? The only product I see at www.edtp.com is the "EDTP AIR PLANE - AIR2500R24A Adapter" board.

Iron

Never used CCS for PIC

Iron

?? @Fred, would you explain again how you converted to an On-the-Go (OTG) device?  I see that dhajicek asked this, too.

Platinum

How is the PIC on the board from the presentation programmed?

Iron

Thanks Fred another good presentaton.

Iron

Really useful intro to USB-Serial on Android. I look forward to using this!

rich? suppose to fill out evaluation form daily? isn't that for week class?

Thanks Fred! It was a pleasure!

@CLASS

I'm IN!

I'll start collecting questions and spouting answers..

Blogger

audio comes and goes. ??  Downloaded V12 Flash Player yesterday. No improvement.

Iron

Thanks Fred. very good presentation.

Iron

How do i get the Basic4Android development onto my Stelth 7 device?

Iron

Thank you Fred, Design News, and Digi-Key

Platinum

Tried to use CCS but when I realized that the device specific files were a $200.00 extra the PIC

project was abandoned.

Iron

Great job. Simple and clear.

Iron

No questions today - thanks Fred and I am looking forward to tomorrow

Iron

Thanks for this lecture.

Iron

?Wait to fill in form after whole class or now?

Iron

?Fred, Can you give more detail on the "on the go" jumper, I couldn't see in in the slides.

Iron

I have not used it...

 

Iron

Thanks Fred -great series. Is he B4A source available for these seminars and where do you get all the neat bitmaps.

Iron

Very good presentation, thank you Fred

Iron

Fred I missed on how you made the USB Serial chip look like USB OTG to Android Device ?

Thank you Fred. Another great presentation.

Iron

Thanks Fred. Very informative!

Iron

Have not used the PIC devices

Iron

Thank you Rich, Design News and Digikey

Iron

Another fantastic lecture. Looking forward to implementing this knowledge. Thanks, Fred and Rich!

Iron

Thanks Fred, Rich, & DigiKey!!

Iron

@Fred, this code has been tested with CP2102 ?.

Thank you Fred, Rich & Digi-Key. Great presentation!

Iron

Have not used this compiler

Iron

re CCS compiler: not that I can recall

Iron

Thank you Fred for today's lecture

Iron

I have not used CCS PIC

 

Iron

Haven't used CCS compiler.

Iron

Have not used PIC compiler.

Iron

I have not used CCS compiler

Iron

I have not used that compiler.

Iron

favorite PIC: hm.... 24FJ64

favorite MCU in general: atmel avr

Iron

I have not used CCS PIC

Iron

Not used CCS compiler

Iron

Haven't used that compiler

Iron

Typically use MPLAB if I'm working with a Pic

Iron

@Fred, how to set "subs.HasPermission" (to TRUE) ?.

what chip is FT232RL ? is this USB to UART Bridge chip ?

Have not used that compiler.

Iron

Been using CCS C compiler since mid-1990's.

Iron

no i don't have used it

Iron

 

I have not used CCS PIC compiler

 

Iron

Little PIC experience.  I like the various arm processors.

Iron

As far as PICs: PIC18, dsPIC, PIC32; otherwise ARM Cortex particularly STM32 series.

Iron

I have not used this particular flavor of PIC

Iron

Have used CCS but not for PIC

 

!!!What are the Real-Time constrains of Android in terms of asynchronous communication on USB? Or, in other terms, what is the minimum time below which the android device will miss USB interrupts, will miss deadlines? 

Yes used ccs but too many macro's. now using XC08

Iron

I've used the CCS compiler since ~ 2001.

Iron

It has been about 10 years since using the CCS.  I stick with the compilers from Microchip.

Iron

CCS (Code Composer Studio from TI?) - I use but wasn't aware they supported PIC 

Iron

I have not used CSC.  I did use MPLab.

Iron

Like using Atmel Mega, tiny and NXP 21xx ARM.

Iron

I have not used that compiler

Iron

Have not used may try. this compiler.

 

Iron

Never used that compiler

Iron

I have not used that compiler.

Iron

freds? not using that compiler

nope, never heard of it.

 

Iron

Have used the compiler

Platinum

Have not used CCS PIC compiler

Iron

QUESTION: Have you used the CCS PIC C Compiler?

Blogger

Used quite a number of PICs & can't say any one is a favorite. Depends on application.  Prefer PICs for smaller projects <8K, MegaAVR for more than that. Getting into ARM Cortex.

Iron

no PIC controller. I ave an MSP430 dev board with G2 series controller

favorite PIC is PIC24 or PIC32

Have used so many micros over the years that I don't have a favorite.

Iron

would also add, would use pic only if i had too.

PIC18F2550

favorite  ATmega32

Iron

PIC microcontrollers can meet all requirements I've had. PIC18F6622 mostly

Iron

Prefer Atmel Arm Cortex M

I like PIC's and also TI.  Arm is our current processor.

Iron

Atmel microcontrollers

Iron

Played more with TI MSP430 and Cypress PSoCs.

Iron

Arduino for the random tinkering that I do

Iron

A couple of vendors' ARM Cortex (M3, M4).

Iron

I use a variety of PICs because of familiarity, good support, and I have an ICD3.

Iron

my favorite is atmega series ex, ATmega128 etc

Iron
I am biased to Atmel microcontrollers.
Iron

Been using the Atmel ATmegaxx8 series. Looking at PIC 18F next.

Iron

freds? use mainly siicon devices and microsemi..

Don't use PICs, prefer Cortex-M

Iron

I've used the PIC18 series before.  I also use Arduino, PICAXE and bare AVR

Iron

 

No favorite so far

Iron

Pic32

fav Micro controller is the Energy Micro Gecko

Iron

Old 8051 guy needs uC with I2C as well as USB...

Iron

PIC: PIC32MF

General: LPC1759

Iron

I like Arduinos but I really like PICs.

Iron

TI Stellaris USB OTG and others

Iron

STM32 F4 is my favorite MCU

Preferer Cypress. Used PIC18 series

Iron

I've used PIC18F series extensively.  THis is my current favorite microcontroller series.

Iron

Mostly a software guy - so no favorite yet.

I like the PICs and PSoC from Cypress.

Iron

QUESTION: What is your favorite microcontroller in general?

Blogger

QUESTION: What is your favorite PIC microcontroller?

Blogger

FTDI are very good. Used quite a lot

Iron

Fred

 

ivOpen = Enable  means the Connect button is Enabled , isn't it ?

How bad is the software bug on the serial library, I would not want to develope an app and have my users needing to close the app and restart.

 

Iron

freds? fdti bridges. has big serial range and dual voltage capible. (i/o and usb).

but have used silicon devices.

FTDI is a very real possibility as I've used them before

Iron

No I did not use USB-to-UART Bridge ICs

Iron

I don't use any of them directly.  I have used them in dongles and pre-mounted on some boards  I like the FTDI and the Prolific is OK.  I've had problems with devices using CP2102s.

Iron

Not yet.  Mostly our processors have the USB integrated.

Iron

Looking for best UART

Iron

Use FTDI for USB-to-Serial. I've also tried some counterfeit (Chinese from eBay) clones that don't work!

Iron

I used the FTDI 232 a few times.  It was one of the first that was easy to use. Am looking at the Microchip stuff though.

Iron

FTDI232 easy to use bridge.

 

Iron

I am not using USB bridge cips yet.

 

Iron

Haven't specifically designed such a USB-UART bridge but FTDI is very common standalone part.

Iron

Do not use at this time.

Iron

FTDI for an older project

Iron

i use silabs cp210X chips

 

Iron

I don't use USB bridges

 

Iron

Use a variety on the software engineering side to access debug, but we rarely incorporate them into the customer design.

Iron

Use FTDI bridge support

 

Iron

Haven't selected one yet. Plan to use USB on next project. Will likely choose the FTDI chip.

Iron

I've worked with ft232 chips; cp2102

Iron

Not using USB-to-UART bridge

Iron

Not using USB<->UART bridge IC's

 

 

Use USB-serial bridges a little, had problems with early FTDI devices

Iron

Hello. No. I'm not using usb to bridge UART ICs.

No, not using anything right now.

Iron

Yes, prolific and FTDI.  Read availability

Iron

No UART to USB bridge used yet. DO you have recommendations?

Iron

I have used the SiliconLabs CP2102

Iron

I've used the FTDI FT232 because it is so easy to work with

Iron

I don't use USB bridges

Iron

I have not used USB bridge IC for several years but I have used the FTDI.

 

Iron

Have not used bridge ICs <sad face>

Iron

I have never used them before.

Iron

Yes - I use FTDI bridge chips all the time

Iron

Have not used them.

Platinum

I am currently using FTDI 201

 

QUESTION: Do you use USB-to-UART Bridge ICs? If so, which brand.

Blogger

Good afternoon from Memphis TN.

 

Iron

Fred yesterday you said there is no Basic programming. But slide #4 shows basic programming syntax and sematics

can you explain ?

thanks

@jrc_fw re Rich Nass question: "I feel like Ed Harris in Apollo 13. For extra brownie points (without looking it up): what is Ed Harris' hometown, and why is it significant to yours truly?"

Here was my response - "Ed Harris was born in Tenafly, NJ, which I presume is your hometown 'cause I know you are from the Great Garden State as myself!"

Iron

The PL2303 is a very common device used in USB to serial dongles.

Iron

Hello from Orange county!

Iron

what is 

Prolific PL2303-Based Devices do ?

Hello from South Carolina

Iron

Good morning from Reno, NV!

Iron

Hello from Toronto, Ontario!!

Iron

 

hello from Mishawaka

 

Iron

Hi all -Audio is live! If you don't see the audio bar at the top of the screen, please refresh your browser. It may take a couple tries. When you see the audio bar, hit the play button. If you experience audio interruptions and are using IE, try using FF or Chrome as your browser. Many people experience issues with IE. Also, make sure your flash player is updated with the current version. Some companies block live audio streams, so if that is the case for your company, the class will be archived on this page immediately following the class and you can listen then. People don't experience any issues with the audio for the archived version.

hello from windy edmonton, alberta

Iron

Do you have to be an IEEE member in order to receive IEEE PD hours?

 

Iron

Heigh Ho from Columbus, OH

Iron

In attendance from Detroit MI

Iron

Be sure to follow @designnews and @DigiKeyCEC on Twitter for the latest class information

Blogger

Greetings from Vermont

Iron

richnass, I didn't see answer to bonus question from yesterday ... what do you and Apollo 13 astronaut have in common?

Iron

Hello from Albuquerque.

Iron

Hello from Manizales, Colombia.

Hello from Cedar Rapids Iowa.

Iron

Hello again from SW Michigan

Iron

Good afternoon from MN.

Iron

Good Evening from Goole

 

 

Iron

Tomball Texas sighning on.

Iron

Lincoln, NE here. cold and windy

Iron

Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

Good evening from Iasi, Romania

Iron

Checking in from Oregon

 

Iron

Hello!  It's a bit chilly today... 8 degF in Minneapolis right now.

Iron

Good afternoon.

And thank you for the code.

Iron

The hump day camel is arrogant...

Iron

Hail and well met from Buffalo, NY! (31 deg F)

Iron

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2 PM Eastern time today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. If that doesn't work, try using Firefox or Google Chrome as your browser. Some users experience audio interruptions with IE. If that doesn't work, the class will be archived immediately following our live taping.

Blogger

@Fred, thank you the code.

Iron

Hello from Rockwell Automation in moderately cold Mayfield Hts., Ohio where it's 30F.

Hello from sunny SE Lake Simcoe Ontario Canada

 

Iron

greetings from slc ut

got cold, keep your distants

@Rruther2:HumpDay back atcha!  Hello from Upstate NY, everyone!

Iron

Good afternoon from the Niagara region.

Iron

Hello from eastern Michigan

Iron

Greetings from scottsdale, AZ

Iron

Tuning in from a chilly Chicago. Greetings, all!

Iron

Hello from El Paso, TX

Iron

I am looking forward another great lecture from Fred E.

Iron

Hello from Summerville, SC.

Iron

Happy hump day!

Rich, I like the silly camel

Iron

Hello from sunny Montana

Platinum

You know the drill: Download the PPT form the link above. We will talk to you in 103 minutes.

Blogger

@mharkins

Yep :-) It's C..

Blogger

@Fred, are you implying that the Pic code is written in C???  :)

Iron

@CLASS

Today's code has been posted:

http://www.edtp.com/download/android-embedded-class3.zip

Many of you expressed concerns about how to tell B4A code from PIC code in the slide deck.

Here are some tips: 

All of the B4A code statements are listed with a line number to the left of the statement.

B4A does not allow the use of // as a comment delimiter.

B4A statements do not end with a semicolon (;).

Sub and End Sub belong to B4A code only.

Hope that helps :-)  See you this afternoon!

Blogger

@richnass, that camel is obnoxious!  LOL

Iron

@bitbanger@rruther2

When I see the reference to Hump Day, the first thought is that GREAT Geico commercial.

Blogger

Morning from Portland Oregon

Iron

Hump Day, what it is!

Slides good,

 

Iron


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