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jmiller
User Rank
Platinum
Re: good alternative
jmiller   11/30/2013 2:50:41 PM
NO RATINGS
I love your comment regarding being willing to help. Often I have worked with some really smart people that have no people skills and thus cannot pass on their knowledge to others. They are almost too smart it seems.  Everyone needs to learn how to be a salesmen.  You need to be able to sell others on your ideas.  Even if you are completely right and have all of the correct facts.  If you can't communicate in a proper way it will be lost in the shuffle.

a.saji
User Rank
Silver
Re: good alternative
a.saji   11/30/2013 11:23:38 AM
NO RATINGS
@jmiller: Very true. I think there are certain people who are experts on the subject. So going to them and gaining some knowledge will not harm anyone, as long as they are willing to help                                 

a.saji
User Rank
Silver
Re: Devil is in the details
a.saji   11/30/2013 11:22:10 AM
NO RATINGS
@EVProfesser: A bit harsh isn't it. Its always good to have some sort of a humor involved so many can enjoy.                                 

jmiller
User Rank
Platinum
Re: good alternative
jmiller   11/30/2013 8:57:27 AM
NO RATINGS
I do admit that I am not an expert.  And when I was referring to humans being sensitive t electromagnetic energy I wasn't referring to the hgih power lines and the alleged development of lukemia or other cancers due to power lines.  I was referring to different people who can feel electricity that is not properly grounded or is "for lack of a better term" leaking.

Often in farming you can watch animals who "know" when an electric fencer is on and when it is turned off.  They don't know this by testing the fence but by feeling something.  I too have been able to detect electricity in wires without actually touching the wire.

I can't explain how or why but I can feel the pulse without actually touching the wire.

I have also had the unfortunate experience of walking over a buried electrical wire when it was wet and feeling the energy in side.  Needless to say we had to have that fixed.

I, like you, want to rely on the experts who have had decades of experience as much as possible.  And I agree we need to work on the efficiency of such systems.

jmiller
User Rank
Platinum
Re: good alternative
jmiller   11/30/2013 8:56:56 AM
NO RATINGS
I do admit that I am not an expert.  And when I was referring to humans being sensitive t electromagnetic energy I wasn't referring to the hgih power lines and the alleged development of lukemia or other cancers due to power lines.  I was referring to different people who can feel electricity that is not properly grounded or is "for lack of a better term" leaking.

Often in farming you can watch animals who "know" when an electric fencer is on and when it is turned off.  They don't know this by testing the fence but by feeling something.  I too have been able to detect electricity in wires without actually touching the wire.

I can't explain how or why but I can feel the pulse without actually touching the wire.

I have also had the unfortunate experience of walking over a buried electrical wire when it was wet and feeling the energy in side.  Needless to say we had to have that fixed.

I, like you, want to rely on the experts who have had decades of experience as much as possible.  And I agree we need to work on the efficiency of such systems.

LetoAtreidesII
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Devil is in the details
LetoAtreidesII   11/19/2013 1:24:56 PM
NO RATINGS
EV Pro - "Your posts are very funny,"  you state but I have backed mine up with  math and it is is accurate.  Show me were my math is wrong I have backed it all up with real #'s from milage rating for EV - 72 mile range of Nissan leaf right of their sales literature to how many solar hours at 1200W it would take to make that same leaf get 500 mile range.

Even with a Tesla your math is way off extended range tesla battery is 85Kw so that solar system would require more than 6+ days of sun to charge it even if their was no transmission loss and that is only 288 miles not your claimed 2 days for 500 miles.  Again I have the facts you throw out insults.  If my math is wrong show me were.

I am happy an EV works for you and as it does for others but that is not the discussion.  The discussion is the hidden devil in the details of mass EV adoption and the math behind it.

 

EV PRO ". you consistantly make unsuported statements and when a serious Industry Expert replies to your vague statements, you change your information, stating you have far different equipment than you had divulged previously" 

Please show me were I make vague statement or change my equipment.  I back it all up with math and data.  I called out 2Kw wind solar mixed, in same post I expand that to 1200W solar 800Wind.  were did I lie or change my equipment

EVprofessor
User Rank
Gold
Re: Devil is in the details
EVprofessor   11/19/2013 12:21:15 PM
NO RATINGS
@LetoAtreidesII, Your posts are very funny, Perhaps you would be more welcomed on the Daily Joke . org instead of Designnews...

LetoAtreidesII
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Devil is in the details
LetoAtreidesII   11/19/2013 9:02:49 AM
NO RATINGS
EV Proffessor you need to have your tender revoked.  Every one of your statements in your last post are bunk here is the proof:  Not a single one is even close to real.  So please get your calculator out and crunch some #'s next time you wish to post a response to reasonable worries about our future.

EV Pro wrote -"500 miles on one tank, must be over 20 gallons." ---- any small car of EV size gets 40-50MPG so it is 10-12 gallons not "Must be 20 gallons".  Prius 50mpg  500 mile range - 10gallon.

EV Pro wrote -"I could add a trailer to the back of my EV with two more boxes of batteries and increase my range to over 500 miles"  -- First physics is a funny thing add weight you lower effeciency.   First even if we assume 100mile range more than any standard EV to up that to 500 miles would take 4 more battery packs but wait their is more now you have the weight of the batteries and trailer so it is even more.

EV Pro wrote -"But, to recharge my three battery packs would cost me only $6 and to fill your tank is going to cost you over $75" --- Again 10 gallons gas not 20 so 37.5 and 5-6 battery packs > 10$ i am not going to do math on charging packs I will assume your 6$ for 3 for now.

EV Pro wrote -"But, your solar panels could recharge my 500 mile batteries in less than two sunny days" --- Again reality and pysics get in the way I already stated I have 1200W solar on a sunny day the best you could get in the US is equivelant of 9hrs at full power, you actually only get rated or slighly above for a couple hours around noon.  So let give it benefit of the doubt 10hrs of full solar power that would be 12KW a leaf has a 72 mile range with a 24KW battery so 2 days of sun would give you :wait for it: 72  miles not 500.  Even if you ignored the extra weight factor 500mile/72 * 2 days == It would take 13.88 sunny days for your not even 500 mile range

EV Pro wrote -"An electric car using your own solar collectors would save you so much in fuel cost that instead of  the solar collectors paying for themselves in 10 years"  -- This is more an economic factor than engineering so I will not worry as much but you cannot attempt to do a payback analyis on a solar system by assume savings from EV  without taking the EV added cost in the equation and their you #'s collapse.  Not to mention again the lack of real charging as show by above calculations.

EV Pro wrote -"that is why 80% of purchassers trading in a hybrid in the USA buy a pure battery" ---I think you might want to say that 80% of EV buyers previously had Hybrids.  The other statement is utter nonsense the Prius sold 147K cars in the US last year an increase from previous year the most common hybrid,.  Conversely the leaf which is 49% of US EV market share sold 9819 or 6.7% of the # of Prius's sold.  were does 80% come from.  If you don't believe check consumer reports or Wiki.


Now when you are ready to talk facts and real numbers please chime in but until then let those who wish to have an honest discussion speak candidly about how to move foward.

 

EVprofessor
User Rank
Gold
Re: chicken before the Egg
EVprofessor   11/18/2013 11:42:23 PM
NO RATINGS
The electric utilities do not agree with you, they agree with me. There is sufficient reserve capacityavailable, from the grid, to support the charging of 200,000,000 EV.

Also for every gallon of petroleum crude oil refined making one gallon of gasoline enough electricity is used to power an electric car for about 25 miles. 

LetoAtreidesII
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Devil is in the details
LetoAtreidesII   11/18/2013 4:45:28 PM
NO RATINGS
EV Pro "As you said the typical EV today has a 68 to 100 to 288 mile range on one charge."

A standard EV gets 60 -80 mile range (leaf-75, MiEV-62, focus-76, etc ). so if you go to work and back avergy is 24 each way that is 48miles a day or 1 round trip with a little to spare if you use no heat, & no AC.

So an avg person driving one of the common EV's leaf,MiEV,focus would need to charge every day driving the avg commute.  Custom EV's and Tesla really do not belong is the discussion.

EV Pro "Your 1/2 tank of gas or 7 gallons is about 150 mile range."

You make to many assumptions about my trip. I get 500mile/tank so my half tank is 250 miles, that is 5 days of driving avg US commute (2*24=48miles) which a leaf would required charged each day for. (leaf 75 mile range) nissan site for source.

EV Pro "EV can be charged whenever it is available and for most of the time that is with the car parked at home overnight."

EV Pro "EV's can be charged overnight"

yes but when talking blackouts and outage their is nothing to say you will have power then.  And unlike a ICE were 5 minutes of power can give you a week of drive. EV's need hours to charge take the follow senerio.

So let put 10,000 EV on a grid that is down everyone hooks up their EV to charge when power comes back on at X hour power returns and now  10,000 chargers &30 or 50A of load get dumped onto the grid.    Will it hold or will section go back down or will they roll the power section to section (this is what has been done in the past when power was short (see CA early 2000's)  Will all sections get the 4hrs of power to charge their batteries??????.  Will these users need to wake up every morning and hope their batteries got enough charge to get them to work and back???

 

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