HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Comments
You must login to participate in this chat. Please login.

Wifi under umbrella - as long as there is no room for monopoly

NO mobil app development

Have a License in General

Fanny. I sent you an email of a cell site bear.

Iron

Thanks everyone for your participation. See you tomorrow at 2:00 Eastern for Fanny's next presentation: Why MIMO & OFDM? 

Blogger

I worked for a company that made such microwave links a few years back. Used high gain directional antennas, that typically had to clear all obstructions like the trees. Not pretty in a park/wilderness location. But if that's what people want.

Are line-of-sight optical links regulated?

Iron

local smart phones could then act as WiFi access points to various users.

Iron

Yes, exactly! A directional antenna microwave link between Jackson Hole and signal mountain.

Iron

signal mountain outside Grant Teton is one such site

Iron

wireless providers use wireless microwave links or line of sight optical links to provide the backhaul service to a cell site where power is available but no cable/ethernet.

Iron

Could be point to point. But directional antennae in the woods...?

Iron

If a femtocell is needed because of poor wireless coverage, it seems odd to privde a wireless link to that same femtocell to provide the back link. And optical and wire would probably be costly in the middle of nowhere (example, cable providers... using microwave links... $$$).

Iron

We'll have to bring the bears roaming proposal to 3GPP next meeting.

Blogger

All femto cell require you to provide the ethernet gateway. either by fixed wire, wireless or optical interface

Iron

Solar or wind-powered small base stations are being deployed in the 3rd world

Blogger

Install femtocells on collars on the bears. Then there would truly be roaming. Best coverage near the trash bins.

Iron

a femtocell in the wilderness can connect via a satelite link or via a wireless mesh to some connected relay station

Blogger

Assuming power makes it out there, but no other lines...

Iron

yes - better to watch out for them bears... :)

Blogger

How would a femtocell installed in the wilderness make the connection back to the main network?

Iron

Interference between service providers is an issue for White Spaces when it comes to unlicensed services, which are not regulated.  Interference with licensed services is regulated and licenced users are protected.

Blogger

That's what the National park service offers in the lodges.  if your watching NCIS on a smart phone you won't see the stars or hearthe bear coming.

Iron

That's funny about Google's interest in spying on campers. LOL

Iron

Google and Microsoft have been supporters of White Spaces.  How to pay for the deployement?  Google's spying on your camping habbits and selling the information to advertizers maybe?

Blogger

On Google and White Space devices, Thank you for the tip.

On campers, these days, many people won't even come to the mountains for a weekend, if they don't get internet.

Iron

Thank You.   The problem with white space networks is the interference between service providers and how does one pay for its use.

Iron

well, made it late, but made it

Iron

802.11p is designed to operate at automotive velocites, though it's intended  to operate point to multipoint to devices within range of one another - no handovers

The roaming capabilities of Wi-Fi can be improved when using 802.11r (fast roaming protocol), but only within the 'mobility domain' inside the enterprise network.

 

This may change.

Blogger

Yeah, wow, "campers". It would be downright uncivilized to go into the woods without full 4G coverage, right?  :)

Iron

If Verizon or ATT are not interested, maybe Google can be convinced to deploy White Space devices?  They shoudl be long-range enough for these types of settings.

Blogger

I know that LTE supports moving mobiles.  WiFi seemes to be suited to mobiles that are not moving as the handoffs from wiFi router to WiFi router might be from one service provider to another and cannot be managed easily.  Do you agree?

Iron

On older WiFi technologies (802.11g), we have multiple Access Points in a site all set up with the same identity. A user can connect to any one, but we have not tried to move from one to the other while maintaining connection. Is such movement (roaming) possible on these older WiFi technologies?

Iron

On the question about using small sized cells, I see that need very strongly in the local San Bernardino Mountains of California just south of Big Bear. The Verizon 3g and 4g signals are down in the -105dbm range at an area with several large retreat centers in the Barton Flats area. Many many "campers" come to that area each year and cannot get good 4g or 3g coverage. It sounds like several strategically placed micro or pico cells would work nicely, mounted on the existing power poles in the area. The question is: how to get Verizon to install those base stations.

   I'm very interested in tomorrow's lecture.

Iron

on the question of WiMAX, it has yieded to LTE in the market and many WiMAX vendors are switching to LTE.

Blogger
thanks Fanny been sharing this some fellow avionics designers To consider wireless use in the cockpit bill curtis milwaukee
Iron

Thanks for the great lecture again.

Iron

Thanks fanny. Have a great day. Its another great lecture.

Iron

LTE today supports Wi-Fi as one of the 'non-trusted' networks and IMS will hand-over from LTE to Wi-Fi.  I think 5G will be reserved for higher speed wireless radios, such as 11ac maybe?

Blogger

on handsets, we tyipcally see 2 receivers and 1 transmitter

Blogger

Thank you Fanny!!

very good lecture

Iron

how would WIFI and LTE converge into a single standard (5G)?

Iron

What is the practical limit for MIMO on handsets? You mentioned 8X8 won't be used on handsets. Is physical size (i.e. where to place the antennae apart) the limiting factor on the size of MIMO on handsets?

Iron

Today Wi-Fi doesn't process handoffs gracefully and some devices don't even implement roaming...

Blogger

i would suggest starting with open souce Wi-Fi drivers under Linux, DD-WRT is one.  

 

Blogger

Thank you. See you tomorrow

 

Iron

WiFi doesn't process handoffs gracefully does it?  So its really a fixed wireless?

Iron

?? I wonder what would you recommend for starting WiFi development applications ?

Iron

The merging of LTE and Wi-Fi is driven by smartphones, which have both and need all the spectrum they can get.  It is happenng now.

Blogger

IMS - IP multimedia subsystem - the layer above the IP layer in LTE networks

Blogger

Great understandable presentation.

What do you think this merging of LTE and WiFi will happen in a years time frame or will it take longer?

Thx,

Ray

Iron

Regarding radiated power, the better the link to the base station, the lower he power in the handset. Handset adjusts its TX power based on the proximity of the base station, so it is actually safer to have a base staiton nearby since the phone is radiating right into your head and the lower the phone's TX power the better.  Also, having more smaller cells will help conserve battery of the handset since it lowers its TX power.  And - yes - smaller base stations transmit at lower power.

Blogger

Fanny, Rob;  Thank You, Excellent presentation, WSM

 

Iron

Thanks and what does IMS stands for?

 

Iron

Thanks for the ideas Fanny

Iron

Very good session, thank you

 

Thanks! excellent presentation.

 

Iron

Thanks Fanny and Rob. You have a good lecture.

Iron

Thanks Fanny, that was a very good lecture.  I look forward to tomorrow's more technical session.

 

Iron

Excellent presentation, Thanks alot

Iron

Thanks Fanny, Rob, and Digi-Key

Iron

Thank you, Fanny and Rob.

Iron

Thanks again Fanny and Rob.

Iron

Thank you Fannie, Rob, and Digi-Key

Gold

Thanks for the lecture Fanny

Thank you Fanny. Question: If the trend is to smaller and smaller cells to serve people more closely to their location, do we expect radiated power from the nano/pico/femto cells, and from subscriber devices, to be going down as time goes on?

Iron

I don't know any consumer who would prefer paying for WiFi in the licensed band unless WiFi in the unlicensed band is not available.

Iron

Really depends upon their profit objectives and how that controls what they deliver.

Iron

Yes, I think its a great idea.

Iron

I don't know enough to comment on management of Wi-Fi under service agreements.

Iron

We're now on slide 18.

Blogger

We're now on slide 17.

Blogger

May be it is a good idea.

Iron

Yes, a lot of user would want that .

Fanny's question:

 Do you think it's a good idea for operators to manage Wi-Fi radios under their service agreement umbrella?

 

Blogger

does this webcast talk about WIMAX ? 

Iron

Not using LTE at this time

 

Iron

We're now on slide 16.

 

Blogger

About 802.11u do you have any more detail information? Protocal and chip set?

Iron

I use a Vz MiFi 4G LTE.  Works well, but data caps are a killer.  I use it mainly to "extend" the MetroPCS/TMobile coverage via WiFi, as VZ LTE coverage is much better...

 

Iron

We're now on slide 15.

Blogger

My carrier has not yet provided LTE coverage in my home area.

Iron

coverage very spotty in rural areas - makes dial in for data upload unreliable

Iron

We're now on slide 14.

Blogger

Verizon, like it near the city, don't use it a ton because of data limit and power draw

Iron

Verizon, generally good coverage. Fast, but trying not to use it too much due to data caps.

Iron

Not using LTE, ATT at this time.

Iron

only as a consumer, have MetroPCS 4G LTE service.  Coverage sucks, frequently use WiFi to actually make calls.

 

Iron

ATT how it works depends greatly where it is installed

Iron

Now we just focus on Wi-Fi. Haven't plan to use LTE yet. But we are interesting in LTE.

Iron

I have LTE through Verizon

Iron

Not using it this time

Iron

We're now on slide 13.

Blogger

No LTE service at this time.

Iron

@ mharkins, it depends what level of security system you are working on. But I prefer Licensed one.

Iron

Fanny's question:

Who among you has LTE service? What carrier are you using (Verizon, ATT, other?)?  And how is it working for you?

Blogger

Not working  at this time

Iron

yes we are doing small and newly developed Pico

 

We're now on slide 12.

Blogger

the new TI AFE7500 dual xceiver part is now rolling out for this small cell market.  Will we see these cells one each of your homes?

Iron

Not work on this network.

Iron

We're now on slide 11.

Blogger

@MazianLab  I disagree.  There's a lot of wireless product including hvac control systems and security systems that run in the unlicensed bands.

Iron

Small cells are new news to me.

Iron

We are interested in using these in our location to improve the coverage in our site.

Iron

No, not working with them.

Iron

yes...for automotive applications

Iron

No, not doing small cell implementation.

Iron

Fanny's question:

Is anyone on the call working with wireless applications involving small cell use or deployment? If yes, can you please elaborate?

Blogger

Licensed is better for controlled systems

Iron

We're now on slide 10.

Blogger

Thanks for the clarification on IMS.

 

Blogger

Oh, Ya beat me to the punch tpyn!  LOL

Iron

Actually its IP Multimedia Core Network Subsystem

Iron

We're now on slide 9.

Blogger

IP Multimedia Subsystem (IMS)

Iron

IMS is information management systems.

Blogger

What does IMS stands for?

Iron

information management system

Iron

We're now on slide 8.

Blogger

Licensed may be the way.

I missed it, what does IMS stand for?

Iron

I'm not working with Billing, QoS or Presence

Iron

No IMS - Maybe down the road if it matures

 

Iron

Developer here, but not IMS

We're now on slide 7.

Blogger

No, not working on IMS.  Not familiar with it.

Iron

Fanny's question:

Are there any mobile applications developers on the call who are working with Billing, QoS and Presence functions?

Blogger

Unlicensed rules in the low-power and personal use space.  Centralized management is important for longer range shared services.  However I believe I could make a case that such management should be a private entity rather than government.

 

Iron

Can see advantages to both licensed and unlicensed, depends on power and range do not want to cause interference.

Iron

Hi sorry late again - work keeps getting in the way.

Iron

We're now on slide 6.

Blogger

Good morning from CA

 

Iron

No opinion right now since I'm not working with either one.

Iron

Perhaps room for both. If unlicensed can't "play nice" together and provide lower-cost service, then more controlled licensed is available for service.

Iron

We're now on slide 5.

Blogger

I think depending on the type application, ISM at this time.

Iron

Both are needed and we utilize both.

Iron

Not working on either one

Iron

Working with ISM-based wireless technologies

Iron

I don't like my TV changing channels when the other appliances send out waves that I didn't expect.

 

Iron

We're now on slide 4.

Blogger

Working with both licensed and unlicensed.  Minimum government control preferred.

No, the carriers should not control unlicensed spectrum

Iron

Not working with either right now.  Can you expand on the benefits and difficulties of each?  Why would someone choose licensed or unlicensed?

Iron

Licensed is better for controlled systems

Iron

Government control is necessary - just ask the government their view.

 

Iron

We're now on slide 3.

Blogger

Fanny's question:

What is your opinion is of licensed vs. unlicensed wireless technologies and which are you working with?

Blogger

Hello from Wyoming ;)

 

Iron

Good afternoon from West Point, PA.

Iron

We're now on slide 2.

Blogger

Hello everyone from Toronto, Ontario!!

Iron

good morning, from TX

 

Iron

Hello from Milwaukee!

Iron

hello from california

Iron

hello from Mishawaka

Iron

Joining in from Massachusetts.

 

Iron

Greetings from Vermont

Iron

Hello from San Diego, home of oarfish caused earthquakes.

Iron

Good Morning from Salt Lake

 

Iron

Good morning from Pittsburg, Kansas

Iron

Are we about to start?

Iron

-The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2 PM Eastern time today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. If that doesn't work, try using Firefox or Google Chrome as your browser. Some users experience audio interruptions with IE. If that doesn't work, the class will be archived immediately following our live taping.

Blogger

Present and Ready.  Hello All from San Jose!

Iron

Hello from Seattle

 

Iron

Hello from Iowa - 60 miles south of me it is snowing today...but not here.

Iron

Good morning from Hudson's Hope

Iron

Looking forward for another great lecture.

Iron

Hello from Summerville, SC. How is everyone doing? How are you Fanny and Rob?

Iron

-Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

Also hello from Albuquerque -- the land of Breaking Bad.

Blogger

Hello from Albuquerque, New Mexico

Iron

-Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

-Be sure to follow @designnews and @DigiKeyCEC on Twitter for the latest class information. We encourage you to tweet about today's class using the hashtag #CEC.

Blogger

Good morning from Mobile, AL

Hi from rainy Panama City, FL.

Iron

Good morning. Great session yesterday. I'm looking forward to another today

Iron

Morning from Portland Oregon

Iron

Download slides first.

Iron

Looking forward to Ms Minarsky's wealth of experience. Hands on with testing experience beats theory every time.



Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
During a teardown of the iPad Air and Microsoft Surface Pro 3 at the Medical Design & Manufacturing Show in Schaumburg, Ill., an engineer showed this "inflammatory" video about the dangers of maliciously mishandling lithium-ion batteries.
The Window Watcher stops the burglar before he does damage or enters the house. House alarm service companies set off alarms and call the service only after the burglar has damaged and entered the house.
If you’re designing a handheld device or industrial machine that will employ a user interface, then you’ll want to check out the upcoming Design News Continuing Education Center course, "Engineering Principles Behind Advanced User Interface Technologies.”
Brooke Williams of Texas Instruments explains how TI’s new TDA3x chip will help future vehicles “see” all around themselves.
It's been two years since the Mac Mini's last appearance on iFixit's teardown table, but a newly revised version joins Apple's lineup this week.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
10/7/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
9/25/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
9/10/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
7/23/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Nov 3 - 7, Engineering Principles behind Advanced User Interface Technologies
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Next Class: 10/28-10/30 11:00 AM
Sponsored by Stratasys
Next Class: 10/28-10/30 2:00 PM
Sponsored by Gates Corporation
Next Class: 11/11-11/13 2:00 PM
Sponsored by Littelfuse
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service