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Stuart21
User Rank
Silver
Re: Impressive
Stuart21   10/8/2013 11:23:08 AM
NO RATINGS
That stands to reason, Rob.

Pretty well entirely the effect of regenerative braking - coupled with the lower air resistance at 'city' speeds.

Fishing_Guy
User Rank
Iron
Re: Impressive
Fishing_Guy   10/8/2013 11:04:43 AM
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Uh Oh, Tesla takes a big hit from this incident.

So, the safest car in America was on fire in Washington and as a result, shares of Tesla Motors, Inc. fell more than six percent the next day, after a bystander's YouTube video of the fire went viral.

http://bcove.me/wy9ro6dg

$70,000 up in flames - ouch!

debitage
User Rank
Iron
Re: Impressive
debitage   10/8/2013 11:00:55 AM
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The person with the chevy volt, if you ran out battery power and used gas  for more than 300 miles what would your milage be than?? I don't think it would be 240 mpg.

 

I have a 2013 prius, I get 50 mpg ave and better in the city driving only because the prius uses more battery power than engine power under 40 mph.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Impressive
Rob Spiegel   10/8/2013 10:19:31 AM
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Stuart21, I think we're seeing that primarily with hybrids. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that with traditional internal combustions engines, highway driving is still more efficient.

Dave Palmer
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Impressive
Dave Palmer   10/8/2013 9:58:04 AM
Maybe more to the point, I'm getting 40+ MPG in my 2013 Nissan Versa, which cost me under $12,000.  Why would I pay more than twice that much just to get a less than 20% improvement in fuel efficiency?

Driving 12,000 miles per year with gas at $3.50, 50 mpg vs. 40 mpg translates to a $210 annual savings.  At that rate, the payback period for the hybrid would be around 80 years... and that's assuming nothing goes wrong with the battery.  That sounds like an incredibly bad investment to me.

Actually, even a Prius C at $20,000 is a bad deal compared to the Versa, unless gas hits about $13.50 a gallon.  Then you at least have a chance of getting your money back sometime during the lifetime of the car.  If you want to get your money back in the first five years, gas needs to be over $25 a gallon, or you need to drive over 90,000 miles a year.

Now, a vehicle that got the same gas mileage as your Chevy Volt and cost under $20,000, that would be a reasonable deal.

Until then, there are enough traditional powertrain vehicles that get decent gas mileage that alternative powertrains are still mainly a status symbol.

Stuart21
User Rank
Silver
Re: Impressive
Stuart21   10/8/2013 8:46:48 AM
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What is surprising for me is that engineering has gotten efficiency to the stage that city consumption is considerably better (less) than country - been out of the auto industry for a long time but it always used to be the other way round.

GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Impressive
GTOlover   10/8/2013 8:45:30 AM
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Could it be that the Japanese car companies are developing their hybrid chassis to maximize the MPG and keeping an eye out for the next transformational battery technology? When the battery is smaller and more energy dense, the Toyotas and Hondas can replace the ICE for an equivalent battery (by weight). Then they have invested their time and resources in developing controls and optimized, light weight chassis.

Who knows, 5 - 10 years from now we could see the "hot rodding" of these hybrids as in ripping out the ICE, changing the control software, and putting in that super battery! Then take out the old Honda hybrid hot rod and smoke (no pun intended) the Teslas of the same vintage!!!

bwilson4web
User Rank
Gold
Reasonable but . . . what do users get?
bwilson4web   10/8/2013 8:44:00 AM
NO RATINGS
Hi,

Many of us remember the Ford C-MAX that came out with impressive 47/47/47 MPG only to have the numbers 'revised' after many users could not achieve these numbers. Also, Hyundai had a problem with over-stated MPG that had to be revised. So let's get some of the cars in owner hands and see what happens but we did some 'back-of-the-envelope' calculations.

The Toyota transmission splits 28% of the power over the electrical path and 72% over the very efficient, mechanical path at all speeds. In contrast, the Honda system sends 100% of the power through the electrical path at lower speeds, below 40 mph.

We typically use 92% efficiency for the engine-to-generator and another 92% efficiency for the generator-to-motor path. The serial path efficiency being the product, ~85%. In contrast, the Toyota system sends only 28% through the relative lossy, electrical path. The rest goes through the mechanical path, typically 98% efficient (one gear set.)

We hope the Honda design works well, at least as well as the Toyota Camry hybrid, another sedan hybrid. But this is why "owner verification" is so important as 'your mileage may vary.'

Bob Wilson

ChriSharek
User Rank
Gold
Re: Impressive
ChriSharek   10/8/2013 8:41:03 AM
Charles, you know better than just about anyone that the liquid coolant systems employed by Tesla and GM keep the batteries within an optimum range and won't allow for overheating; thus extending the life of the battery and preventing the potential for fire.

Let go of the ICE . . .

ChriSharek
User Rank
Gold
Re: Impressive
ChriSharek   10/8/2013 8:38:26 AM
You think 50 MPG is fuel efficient!?  Really?  I'm getting 240 MPG in my 2011 Volt!  This vehicle is 3 years newer getting a quarter of my MPG!  Wake up!

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