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Shadetree Engineer
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Re: Pretty Darn Real to Me
Shadetree Engineer   8/6/2013 10:09:37 AM
Got me on that one! I always thought it was just kW consumed per hour vs kW load.

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Engineer to activist
Watashi   8/6/2013 9:20:08 AM
It appears that the 'high level engineer' is now more about marketing and business development.  Engineers can provide a solution to any issue you have; good engineers know the practical limits of the solution. 

He could have identified a market niche for his product or tried used some logical justification for it.  But instead, he basically called us consumers a bunch of idiots that wouldn't know the difference in range anyway! 

I always find it disheartening to hear an engineer sell out and become a propagandist.

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Re: Range Anxiety
gfvalvo   8/6/2013 7:22:52 AM
trees says ----

"Using fuel to obtain motion is not efficient. Average power plant efficienty is about 30%. Cars only get 30% when they are driving hard under load. The car average efficiency is more like 20%."

Yet, despite this supposed "inefficiency", the energy density of a chemical fuel allows our current vehicles to provide useful range, power, and versatility. When an EV can do all that at a comparable cost, then we'll talk. Until then, I'm not switching to a more expensive, less useful vehicle just to make the CO2 Chicken Littles feel good.


Debera Harward
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RE: Needs
Debera Harward   8/6/2013 7:13:45 AM
I have heard that one of the North Eastern Company Hyperdrive is working on the issue of range and developing range extender for these Electric cars . According to them it is low cost and high power density unit which will increase the range of electric vehicles .

Debera Harward
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RE: Needs
Debera Harward   8/6/2013 7:09:46 AM
Electric cars no doubt is one of the best inventions of this century and the idea is  very thought provoking as well but every new creation has its positive points and flaws as well and by  pointing out the flaws doesnt mean that one is crticizing on the object instead by these critics solutions to very big problems also come . We say that there is range issue in electric vehicles and below mentioned are some factors that contribute to this issue .

1.In accurate instrumentation that is the instrument used in electric vehicles to measure how much the car can travel with the particular charging diesnt show accurate results .

2.Charging stations currenlty are not too close as compared to gas stations obviously its a new technology and it will take time to evolve but usuaally electric vehicle owners think whether to take this car for drive or not will they get particular charging station on the required time or not .

3. Charging takes long time as compared to gas stations . Secondly manufacturers mention  the milage to be covered in specific charging is usually not correct because that milage is simple milage but what if consumer is using accessories in the car , Acs , heater etc .

Debera Harward
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RE: Needs
Debera Harward   8/6/2013 7:02:17 AM
Andy you are absolutely correct i myself totally agree with Nancy that engineers should keep  in mind the requirment of consumers rather than just imposing anything on consumer for there use . According to me personal usage items like cars , bikes , house hold appliances should not be manufactured either fro exceptional scenarios or for common scenarios  but the success of the product or item  totally depends upon its versitility that is it should be manufactured keeping in mind both the daily routine plus the exceptional scenarios .

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Re: Range Anxiety-Global warming?
trees   8/5/2013 10:51:34 PM
Hi Dennis,


   I recently learned that people believe what agrees with their viewpoint. They only accept facts that agree with them. We are all sort of crazy this way. It should be the other way around, modifying our viewpoint based on facts. So bearing this in mind, please visit this link:  http://climate-guardian.com/avatar/

   My understanding based on NASA measurements is that CO2 is blocking outgoing radiation. Worse, I just learned that 200 days of burning say a gallon of gas results in a global energy imbalance equivalent to a gallon a day. This energy impalance lasts for centuries. 

   Have you researched arctic ice volume lately? Greenland ice melt? 

   The flat temperature you quote is an old long debunked story. The oceans have been absorbing the heat. You need to look at the temperature/CO2 timeline over a longer time scale: 1900 to present.

   I think that if you study the issue, trying to sort fact from dogma, you will come to a different conclusion. Truth is, we are in deep shit. Continued warming, rising seas, severe irregular droughts and rains, food shortages, etc. We have set a big ball in motion, and it will not stop until long after we are crushed.



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Re: Range Anxiety-Global warming?
Bunter   8/5/2013 9:43:48 PM
Hi Trees,

You might want to look at the global temp data sets (GISS,HADCrut, UAH anybody you like) The trend line has been flat for 15 years, some data is closing on 20 years with no warming. Even dyed-in-the-wool AGW champions like Hadley's Dr. Phil Jones admit this.

The correlation between CO2 and temp change is something around 45% (lousy).

The current solar cycle (24) is way under performing expectaions and giving concerns that we may be headed for a solar minima (cold).  No promises, but solar minima and cold temps correlate with global temps way better than CO2.  We'll see but extra insulation may be a good idea kids.

All we saw was a twenty year rise (like 1915-35 approx.) that correlates well with the ocean cycles (PDO, AMO, MOUSE...etc.)

And there are many serious scientists in relevant fields that have long questioned the whole hysterical theory. Lindzen, Ball, Pielke (Sr. & Jr.), Christie, etc.  and many others.

Please down bring Mann's "Hockey stick" up, Gore isn't even using that anymore (I will say Algore and Jim Hansen have shown there is dang good money to be had in scaring people with the boogey-man).

In the 1960's everybody wigged out over a short term cooling trend and predicted a new "ice age".

Stay cool cats,


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Range Anxiety is Real
apresher   8/5/2013 6:02:18 PM
There is a reason why most people don't know the range of their gasoline vehicle (although I think most can calculate it very quickly); it's not a concern because it's a non-factor.  The range of EV solutions is viewed as a big deal because depending on the range, it becomes a purchasing factory.  Plain and simple.

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Re: Pretty Darn Real to Me
MIROX   8/5/2013 5:13:45 PM
Thanks for a GREAT link !!!

Unfortunately the politicians that singed the previously explained calculations as they are done by CARB, EPA, NHTSA and even SAE into CAFE and ZEV regulations may not understand the difference!

But bit too late now.

That is how it is now done and will remain so till ???

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