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MIROX
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Pretty Darn Real to Me
MIROX   8/5/2013 2:55:38 PM
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The Motor Rating is PEAK, just like in ICE, it may have 160 hp but you only use 23 to go 50 MPH on level road, or less.

A/C or Heater are consuming the power 100% of the time they are on even when the vehicle is standing still.

Remember that most of the EV's on the market only consume about 250 W/mile in the EPA certification test.

At 60 MPH that is 250W per minute = same as 250W per mile.

But in slow traffic A/C will use upto 275 W per mile and Heater in freezing weather as much as 350 W per mile traveled !

So accesories other than Audio system, can use MORE energy than the Traction motor on per mile average.

Also with regenerative braking you get as much as 80% of the propulsion energy "back" into a battery pack, but any energy used to power anything else is lost from the battery.

 

 

VoltDave
User Rank
Iron
Re: Speed
VoltDave   8/5/2013 2:48:06 PM
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Most batteries are warranted for 8 years and 100,000 miles.  14 states mandate a 10 year 150,000 mile warranty. 

The Chevy Volt limits the State of Charge of its battery not to exceed 80% and not to go lower than 20%.  This significantly increases the life of the battery, expected to be many thousands of charge cycles.   

MIROX
User Rank
Platinum
Needs
MIROX   8/5/2013 2:47:14 PM
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Great Point Charles !!!

With the exception of India and China, nowhere else in the World people buy because of "need" they buy because of "want".

(There people buy moped and pack up to5 people onto it).

F150 would not be the best selling vehicle in the World if people bought for "need", they buy it just "in case" they might have to haul something sometimes, same is the case for most 4x4 purchases.

The 4 seat example is illustrating it very well, 2 seaters with the exception of few sports cars just do not sell very well.

Obvious solution is to own TWO cars or Extended Range EV - Hybrid like VOLT.

But when the USA market is about 50 to 60% Light Trucks and SUV's, the obvious thing would be to offer "VOLT-like" Pick-up Truck or SUV, but there are NONE !!!

Right there more than 1/2 of the potential market is eliminated from EV purchase because the "want/need" is not available.

Interest in EV Trucks is almost non-existent, proven by banruptcy of companies like Azure, and Bright.

Local in City cargo deliveries over known and repeatable daily route are the EXACT example where all the operators really only "need" is EV with very specific range, but they DO NOT WANT IT !!!

And that includes US Post office, where over 85% of all theri trucks that haul local mail caould be EV.

There is alway the "what if one day" they might need to go 5 miles further, and they will not be able to, what then ?

For pure EV the answer is you can not, but for Extended Range EV, well you just start the engine...

 

VoltDave
User Rank
Iron
Re: Its Real...
VoltDave   8/5/2013 2:39:53 PM
NO RATINGS
Why are commenters talking about EV's with a 40 mile range?  I don't know of any EV with that short of a range. 

kenish
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Is range anxiety real?
kenish   8/5/2013 1:53:33 PM
I'm a private pilot.  There's never any range anxiety...the ground is always less than 2 miles away in most light aircraft, and less than 8 miles in airliners!  Better yet, fuel is not required to reach the ground!  :)

Contrarian
User Rank
Gold
Re: Pretty Darn Real to Me
Contrarian   8/5/2013 1:14:45 PM
NO RATINGS
@ck_02:  All the accessories turned on at once is a fraction of what the traction motor draws.  An A/C compressor motor might draw 3kW, the drive motor could be 50kW or more.  Accessories can certainly impact range but if you work it out over any given trip they're only a minor percentage of overall draw.  10% difference in range would be a fair estimate unless you sit in the car for hours and hours at a time not going very far. 

rick oleson
User Rank
Gold
Re: Pretty Darn Real to Me
rick oleson   8/5/2013 1:01:44 PM
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@ck_02:  Traffic jams really aren't a problem.  If you're not moving, you're not drawing (much) current.  Going slowly actually increases your range.  If the jam doesn't involve having to go any extra distance you're OK.


........  just make sure you don't have the radio, headlights, heat, defroster or air conditioning on, and resist the urge to find an escape route that would take you out of your way.


ck_02
User Rank
Iron
Re: range anxiety
ck_02   8/5/2013 12:41:58 PM
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@patb2009 I don't think current alternative fuels have that much of an issue for "range anxiety". For instance, a 20 lb. propane tank can deliver approximately 250 miles. CNG or LNG are around 200-250 miles from what I've seen. Diesel is readily available at most current gas stations. I'm thinking an adapter or "pump" at home to fill LNG/CNG would be relatively viable and most towns (at least in my area) have abundances of NG available so to purchase for vehicles seems easy enough. Heck, the excess is currently being burned off as it is. (Wasteful, IMHO). Propane tanks can be exchanged all over town for around $20 or less. I think availabilty for using an alternative fuel is easily more readily found than current opportunities for "refueling" or replacing energy in an EV for the time being.

gfvalvo
User Rank
Iron
Re: range anxiety
gfvalvo   8/5/2013 12:37:21 PM
NO RATINGS
Patb2009 Said:

"Diesel, LNG, Propane, all of these alternative fuels carry the same burdens on range anxiety as Electricity."

But, with diesel, LNG, or propane you'd have 3-5 times the range on a single "fill-up" as you would with an EV. That moves the point of range anxiety onset to a very reasonable position.

As stated before, it's all about energy density. Batteries are breathtakingly behind fossil fuels in both Joules / Kg and Joules / m^3.

Matt916
User Rank
Iron
Re: Speed
Matt916   8/5/2013 12:30:34 PM
NO RATINGS
In addition to efficiency, what about battery capacity over time?  The capacity of all the re-chargable batteries in my electronic devices decreases over time.  That brand new laptop may run for 4 hours intially but after a couple years it only lasts for 2 hours.  Has anyone ever evaluated the EV battery capacity over time?  How much range is lost after a year of driving 30 miles five times a week in an EV with an intial range of 40 miles?

What about charge cycles?  The example above would be equivalent to about 200 full charge cycles.  How many charge cycles are expected out of these batteries?  My electronic devices are reported as having about 1000 charge cycles and in my experience the capacity is only half of what it was when it was new.  A twenty mile range after five years of use would be rather dismal.

I haven't really researched EV battery technology so pardon my ignorance.  The higher initial price and range are way too far off for my needs so EV's aren't even on my radar.

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