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GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Is range anxiety real?
GTOlover   8/5/2013 8:44:20 AM
NO RATINGS
I forgot about the gas can! Only once in my life did I run out of gas and that was on my way to a gas station. I missed it by about a half mile. How much does a half mile extension cord weigh?

Zippy
User Rank
Platinum
Re: job of the engineer
Zippy   8/5/2013 8:34:20 AM
I agree with patb, with the following comments:

Of course range anxiety is real, particularly if you are limited to a single vehicle to cover as many of your particular needs as possible.  Same for towing needs, carrying 9 passengers, off-roading, etc.  Life is choices.

EVs are new technology, with restrictions of capability and available infrastructure.  I'm sure the early drivers of gasoline vehicles has the same anxieties.

The tone of the discussion is that an engineer, unable to provide the ideal solution, tries to convince you that it really is not a limitation.  Better to evaluate the current state of the technology, identify the market that it serves, and make a product appropriate to that market.  The people who find your limitations unacceptable are not part of your market.

rick oleson
User Rank
Gold
Re: Is range anxiety real?
rick oleson   8/5/2013 8:32:47 AM
NO RATINGS
1. By what definition does anyone consider "average" adequate?  A car designed to meet my average needs for range will, by definition, strand me on the road exactly 50% of the time.  Not sure about you, but to me that's not acceptable performance.

2. I do know pretty well the range of all of my gasoline cars, and I don't worry about it because (a) none have a range of less than 300 miles; (b) there are gas stations all over the place; and (c) if I do run out of gas, I can carry a 10 pound can of gas back to the car and get it going again.

I do expect electric vehicle technology and infrastructure to improve and become more and more competitive, but I have little patience for engineers who whine about consumers wanting something more than average.

 

AnandY
User Rank
Gold
RE: Needs
AnandY   8/5/2013 7:57:42 AM
NO RATINGS
I agree with Nancy in that the engineers should consider the needs of the consumers. Most consumers who have the range anxiety in electrical vehicles usually are people who desire to use the vehicle for out of town purposes. While electrical vehicles are de3signed for short range distances, it is important to note that there are consumers who require vehicles for weekend trips and buying an electrical vehicle may not be a good decision.

vimalkumarp
User Rank
Gold
Re: Needs.
vimalkumarp   8/5/2013 2:19:00 AM
NO RATINGS
Good point. Though designing for exception isn't a new idea this has been  the engineering practice live overdesign.

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
job of the engineer
patb2009   8/4/2013 11:58:38 PM
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"it's the job of engineers to figure out what consumers want and then design to it"

 

I'd say it's the job of the marketers, to figure out the market, the customer,

the customer needs, and the customer price point and reasonable penetration.

 

So the engineer can then come back and figure out if they can produce a product

at the price/performance point.

 

it's a collaborative process.

 

I don't expect a car to do every single job, but it should do the bulk of them.

My Hybrid doesn't tow, i'dlike a tow hitch, but it's not a big deal.

 

when I need to tow something, or get something big, i con my brother into bringing the van over.

 

I think for a family, an EV is just another car, it's the daily commuter or the errand car while the minivan or truck is for big weekend gigs. 

 

Range anxiety happens in gas cars, FWIW, the average gas car has about 300 miles of range, it's a design standard. be able to drive for 5-6 hours, then take a break.

 

 

wbswenberg
User Rank
Gold
Range and Refuel Time
wbswenberg   8/2/2013 6:29:16 PM
NO RATINGS
I think the range anxiety is compounded by the lenght of time to refuel - recharge.

Then I also think about towing.  I have two vehicals with towing capibility.  And two with out.  

 

GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Is range anxiety real?
GTOlover   8/2/2013 9:36:34 AM
It seems the engineer is trying to convert the language of range anxiety to include all vehicles. This is the "nudge" effect to take away the  negative preception of EV's. However, my first answer is, "Yes, I know the approximate range of my vehicle and it is 4-5 times that of the best EV." A suburban with a 42 gallon tank getting approximately 17-19 mpg, translates into over 700 miles! BOOM!

As many have stated over and over. Daily commutes are the perfect fit for the EV. But it is the idea of extra commuting that dictates the buyer. I do not go into a car dealer and say, "I need a vehicle that I can drive 50 miles to work each day." I go into the dealer looking for a car that fits most all my needs. If it happens to be a SUV because I haul around a bunch of kids, supplies, and drive long distances, then that is the vehicle that I look for. Sure, my 9-5 job is only 50 miles, but that is not my immediate thinking. Perhaps we should be thinking more in terms of specialized vehicles for specialized needs. But who can afford 2, 3, or 4 different cars?

Bunter, you also brought out the most practical thought of most buyers. "How do I re-fuel it?" No one worries about a gas station (except maybe in West Texas). But where do you plug in your EV. Also, can I plug it in at home? Special recepticals or wiring required? How long to recharge? These factors are the "range anxiety". Re-fueling has to be considered at the time of purchase!

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Needs.
Bunter   8/2/2013 9:30:21 AM
NO RATINGS
Thanks Nancy.  Your point on rural Texas is good also.  Gas/diesel cars work everywhere.  All the time.  No anxiety.  And even inner city dwellers often leave (drive into Chicago on a Friday afternoon sometime). 

Rental on top of a car payment! Very good point. Bet that would be satifying.

The reaction of this engineer makes me suspect that he probably does not believe the range issue will be solved anytime soon. Hence he tries to make it go away.  The EV fans keep insisting this will soon be a dead issue-but this guy , who is working on "the front lines", sees a need for consumers to adapt. He doesn't see a near term solution.  Just a thought.

Cheerio,

Dennis

Nancy Golden
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Is range anxiety real?
Nancy Golden   8/2/2013 9:16:45 AM
NO RATINGS
Lots of range anxiety driving through West Texas - EVs aren't even a possibility out there unless you never leave town.

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