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Cadman-LT
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Re- Lousy equipments
Cadman-LT   8/15/2013 9:21:30 AM
NO RATINGS
Yes...your dishwasher isn't a freakin jungle gym dummy! My wife doesn't swing off the microwave door!!!!

AnandY
User Rank
Gold
Re- Lousy equipments
AnandY   8/11/2013 3:59:54 AM
NO RATINGS
Regardless of the place of use of an equipment I think the machine should be made to withstand the normal strains like children and small accidents, lacing plastic on the dishwasher only reflects the kind of equipments that are in the market all in the name of 'they are domestic'. The machines are bought to be used for an undefined period of time thus spending a few coins on its durability would go a long way.

Keldawwg
User Rank
Gold
Re: AMBIVALENT
Keldawwg   8/7/2013 2:11:34 PM
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Yes, I know... But the weight of those pans, plus 2 or 3 dogs standing on the door is surely putting more load on it than a 35 pound toddler sitting at the edge. I don't really know how much load that door would take, but I would not be surprised if you could put 100 pounds on the edge of the door without breaking anything. It's a tank.

When I took out the GE dishwasher that flooded my kitchen without warning, I picked it up and carried it out the sliding glass door and thru the gate and put it in the back of my truck to take it to the dump... The door and the gate were closed, I opened them without putting the GE down... If that thing weighed 70 Lbs I would be surprised...

The Miele I had to get help with to get it off the pallet... That thing weighed almost what my fridge weighs... It was a job for two fairly big guys (I'm 6'4" and 215 lbs) to carry it into the house...

I have owned a furniture dolly for a lot of years now, but the Miele hasn't shown any sign of breaking... If it breaks, there is no question what dishwasher I will replace it with...

zeeglen
User Rank
Gold
Re: Mixed feelings
zeeglen   8/6/2013 8:09:15 PM
NO RATINGS
Back in the 80's we moved into a home with a pre-owned dishwasher, can't remember the make but was old when we inherited it.  Had 4 boys, they used the open door as a step to climb onto the countertop when parents were not looking.  That door held up.

The point being that maybe today's marketeers don't believe that a dishwasher door should require a few cents extra to support the weight of a toddler.  And unfortunately today's marketeers are over-ruling the engineers...

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
TODDLER TEST
bobjengr   8/6/2013 6:11:53 PM
NO RATINGS
Hello Bob.  I retired from GE and although in the cooking products group, I can attest to the fact there are "price points" (hate those words) that basically determine the construction and materials within consumer products.   Down and dirty--the builders' models, then mid-range (GE), then high range (Profile) then the "good stuff" (Monogram). GE figures the largest group of home owners move every four (4) years.  There are numbers that substantiate this fact.  This also factors into decisions made at management levels.  I was excoriated during one meeting when I made the comment I would love to have time and money to create and design a truly excellent product.  "Quality and great design" are too costly.  Good is usually good enough".  What else can I say?   

Larry M
User Rank
Platinum
Re: AMBIVALENT
Larry M   8/6/2013 5:58:45 PM
NO RATINGS
Keldawwg wrote: "My wife has a lot of Le Creuset pots and pans... If she fills the bottom rack of our dishwasher with 4 of these monsters, then there is more than 35 pounds resting on that door..."

Ahh, but remember your physical mechanics class from college. A 35-lb toddler at the edge of a 2-foot door is imparting 70 ft-lb of torque (moment) at the failure point.  (Conflating lbs-force with lbs-mass here but it's okay for this comparison).

50 lbs of pots in the rack, where the rack is supported by wheels at both extreme ends imparts only 50 ft-lbs of torque to the failure point. (The inside wheels contribute a downward force but no rotational force.) Simple algebra shows that as you move both wheel sets inward from the extreme rack edges, the torque gain from moving the inner set outward is exactly cancelled by the torque-reduction from moving the outer set inward. Hence the torque is always 50 ft-lb regardless of where the wheel-sets are symmetrically placed.

Now, if you really want some Whirlpool dishwasher monkey stories, ask me about the door lift springs which seem to break off at the hook about every two years. But you don't have to buy new ones. Just take the old ones off and bend the next loop up 90 degrees to make a new hook. I seem to have done this three or four times, taking off half a loop each time and they are still functioning. (They might not break so quickly if I were to heat them at the bend point with a torch before bending, but I haven't tried that.)

Or you could ask me about the wisdom (? !!) of running 10 amps for the heating element through a Molex connector that's surely not rated for the current. They burn up quite nicely, and if the FR4 circuit card scorches, it will stink up the kitchem quite well. You can't get the card any more, and I didn't trust the connector, so I just bypassed it, soldering short leads directly to the switch leads and using inline "bullet" connectors to connect to the wiring harness.

Keldawwg
User Rank
Gold
Re: AMBIVALENT
Keldawwg   8/6/2013 5:21:33 PM
NO RATINGS
Well, I think this is pathetic, and a shining example of just why US made products are losing the battle for world-wide acceptance...

My wife has a lot of Le Creuset pots and pans... If she fills the bottom rack of our dishwasher with 4 of these monsters, then there is more than 35 pounds resting on that door... A substantial amount more, probably...

Plus, we have 3 dogs and if someone pulls the lower rack out and starts filling the dishwasher, and walks out of the kitchen back into the dining room, the 3 pugs (that weigh about 20~25 pounds each will all be up on the door sniffing and trying to lick the pans...

But we have a Miele dishwasher, and it has been absolutely flawless for about 16 years... It has yet to have it's first malfunction, and nothing has broken... (My wife has bent some of the plastic coated wire that makes up the lower rack... Those pans are heavy!)

Sigh... Buy a Miele...

AnnomousCoward
User Rank
Iron
different perspective
AnnomousCoward   8/6/2013 4:14:19 PM
NO RATINGS
as a design engineer for an oil serives company, we take just the opposite perspective. We build things assuming they are going to be climbed on, stood on, jumped on, hammered on, and when they cant find a way to break it, they will "soil" it.

GTOlover
User Rank
Platinum
Re: AMBIVALENT
GTOlover   8/6/2013 8:20:54 AM
NO RATINGS
Charles, you bring up a good point and I think it is related to the discussion here, do designers consider the extremes? Both in terms of loading and volume. I would like to tell you that my son is unique at that hieght, but his uncle is also 7 feet. He plays basketball with a few other guys that are upward of 6'8". They all have issues with fitting our average and standard deviation designs.

As I have stated, my dishwasher door needed my "engineered" fix due to cyclical loads (slamming the dishwasher door open). Did the designer consider that the door would be forcefully flung open? Did he consider a mild to heavy load may be placed upon the open door? Maybe they did and made a compromise. In the opinoin of this consumer (and me) the company was cheap. Had I known of this compromise, I may have opted for a different brand (which I will look for in the future).

I currently work in a design group responsible for commercial aircraft interiors, we have (to the best of my knowledge) never considered how a 7 foot person would sit on an airplane. We do consider short people (as in children). How does a tall man fit into a small car (or EV/hybrid)? The best fit for most tall men seems to be the full sized trucks (usually with an extended cab). My son does not fit through a standard door without ducking under. How about the short persons at an ATM or even the Walmart checkout counter needing to slide the debit card through the reader?

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: AMBIVALENT
Charles Murray   8/5/2013 7:08:10 PM
NO RATINGS
Yikes, GTOlover, seven-feet-tall is a big boy. I have two tall ones (6'-6" and 6'7") who both have trouble fitting into vehicles. Men who are about 6'-6" are at roughly the third standard deviation for height, and my impression is that product designers often don't care about those who are at the third standard deviation and beyond. I'm sure your seven-footer has problems with cars and clothes and probably other products, as well.

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