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patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: And they will blame Bush!
patb2009   7/27/2013 10:18:02 AM
NO RATINGS
dennis

Solar nicely matches the daily demand curve.

About 2 PM when every A/C in the city is straining, a Solar PV array is cranking out the watts.

As for needing space, it nicely matches human space requirements.  The Average house can install a 5KW array without much effort and become grid neutral.

The average office building can install solar arrays on the parking lots and cover the buildings daytime power needs.  

If the technology wasn't working, it wouldn't be selling so well in europe , asia and africa.

 

 

 

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: And they will blame Bush!
patb2009   7/27/2013 10:12:53 AM
NO RATINGS
The Govt has a real ability to project winning technology, but the govt has

a much poorer ability to project winning products or companies.

GPS?  Um, who built the constellation?

Jet Engines? I think the Army Air Corps poured serious money into that.

Alternating Current? Think TVA and Bonnevile power.

Micro-chips? The air force was buying lots of those and pouring big bucks into R&D.

HDTV finally took off when the DoD locked down on 720p and started buying a

ton of the screens and cameras.

 

The govt isn't a good operator, unless it's a public good, but, industry has trouble

investing beyond the next quarterly report.

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: Will it take that long?
patb2009   7/27/2013 10:08:42 AM
NO RATINGS
Dennis

 

sometimes a picture tells a thousand words

 

http://www.greencarreports.com/image/100434362_electric-vehicle-sales-vs-hybrid-electric-vehicle-sales-chart-issued-by-u-s-department-of-energy

 

I think the future of electric cars is very bright, and we just need to keep beavering away at adoption, understanding and learning curve.

 

Charles is a nice guy, but he's super pro nuke and he's very suspicious of new tech.

That's okay an Honest skeptic makes a razor to test ideas.  

 

But here's a chart from the washington post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/07/electric-vehicle-adoption.jpg

if you notice, the issue is battery cost vs gas price,  if Gas costs are at $5/gal almost any

Battery price is supportable.  At Battery Costs under $300/KWH, an EV is sustainable.

As volumes increases, we should hit those points in the learning curve.

All the Federal subsidies are doing are serving to kick start initial production.

 

at Current gas prices, Hybrids are sustainable and we see nice steady growth of Hybrid vehicles. Almost every major manufacturer has a hybrid now, and, the Prius has sold 3 million world wide. Not too shabby by any measure.

EVs are ramping up nicely, and battery costs are coming down.  I'd say the big issues are we need to have a standard for fast charging, (Level 3) and we need to make it a national priority to get fast chargers at the interchanges of major interstates and then every 100 miles along the major interstates. (A partnership with truck stops would do nicely).

 

EV's still require a bit of learning curve, and the price/performance isn't where we want it to be, but it will be there by 2020. Sooner if gas prices stay high.

 

patb2009
User Rank
Gold
Re: And they will blame Bush!
patb2009   7/27/2013 9:54:06 AM
NO RATINGS
CO2 like water is essential to life, however, you can easily drown in a bathtub too.

CO2 in the wrong place or amount is just as problematic to the planet and humanity

as 8 inches of water.

 

As for green energy not being competitive with Fossil energy, that's just silly.

Any economic system has a fixed cost and a variable cost and investment cost

which in any analysis works out to a life cycle cost of energy.  

Fossil systems tend to be cheap on investment and pricy on variable costs.

Green tech tends to be investment heavy and ops cost light.  That wind and sun

is cheap.  Halliburton hasn't figured out how to monetize wind yet.  

 

So if you look at places like Hawaii and Alaska wind energy and solar are very economical because the cost of importted fuel is so high.  If you look in the american south west

solar is getting so productive it's eating up the utilities.

 

The real discussion made by adults is projected 20 year cost of fuels, projected 10 year cost of money, cost/watt for various technology those are the conversations of adults, not

people who spend their days listening to AM Radio.

 

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Sheeeeeeesh.
Charles Murray   7/26/2013 5:06:43 PM
NO RATINGS
We are in the process of deleting comments. Please take the high road, folks. Name-calling will not be tolerated.

Reliabilityguru
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Sheeeeeeesh.
Reliabilityguru   7/26/2013 4:56:02 PM
NO RATINGS
Sorry you didn't care for the turn in the conversation. But it isn't all about the economics. There are considerations of practicality and environment that speak to the subject as well and I believe they are much more important than the $ per mile.

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Sheeeeeeesh.
Bunter   7/26/2013 3:33:52 PM
All it took was for one person to start name calling and an interesting discussion is destroyed.

Folks, this is a tactic of those who have an agenda without facts (unsupported pretend numbers are not facts) to pressure those who think into silence.

Sad.  Don't lower yourselves to this level.  Regardless of which side of an issue you are on.

If I wanted this kind of blather I would comment on some rat-hole like Yahoo (if you want to read stupid comments from those on both sides of any issue it's great.)

 

Cheeri-freakin-O,

Dennis

Reliabilityguru
User Rank
Platinum
Re: And they will blame Bush!
Reliabilityguru   7/26/2013 2:26:05 PM
Climate "science" is a guess. And computer models based on other guesses. And those with vested interests on both sides murking it up. That is the crux of the debate.

Reliabilityguru
User Rank
Platinum
Re: And they will blame Bush!
Reliabilityguru   7/26/2013 1:13:31 PM
I'm guessing biology was not your best subject.

Reliabilityguru
User Rank
Platinum
Re: And they will blame Bush!
Reliabilityguru   7/26/2013 1:00:48 PM
CO2 is not poison. It is essentail in the cycle of life. Pretty obvious who's been brainwashed. I prefer a different term for green energy; Technology Regression, moving away from modern convenience to a more primitive existence. None of the green energy technologies have the potential to equal what it portends to replace. It can never be competitive because it is inferior. That is why it must be subsidized. The only feasible non-fossil fuel energy technology is nuclear and that has been forestalled by the Luddites or greenies if you prefer.

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