<<  <  Page 2/2
Jim S
User Rank
Re: More devices
Jim S   7/25/2013 9:49:12 AM
That's nonsense. I don't believe oil will be $320-$440 a barrel any time soon. Oil companys don't get any special tax treatment. They recieve a way to depreciate their capital investment and intangible drilling costs. A realestate investment trust recieves the same tax treeatment. As far as the military protecting oil investment that is pure nonsense. If that were true American companys would be in Irac. They aren't. This is supposed to be about technology and not politics!

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Re: More devices
Jerry dycus   7/25/2013 9:33:13 AM
Charles the real subsidies hurting EV's are the massive ones for oil like protecting international oil companies for free.  All up it's about 15% of the Fed budget and 50% of the military budget.  If that was in oil as it should be we'd have been doing EV's long ago. That also mean YOU pay 15% more in taxes to cover it.


Next Lux or Pike have rarely been even close to correct 5  yrs out.  They really don't have a clue based on their histories.  Lithium batts/kwhr will easily double if not triple by 2018 because of 2 things, oil will be $8-10/gallon by then if the world economy recovers and lithium bats will be cheaper, under $200/kwhr retail in plug and play modules which is about what OEM's pay now for cells.

Tesla is getting them at about $150/kwhr for cells now. Musk laughed when asked and just said the battery prices are much lower than the press has been saying.

And if you do a teardown of them you'll find the cost of making cells for materials is under $100/kwhr now.  At 22lbs the average costs of them is around $4/lb mostly plastic, iron, alum, copper, phosphate, etc .  Even the .5lb of Lihium Carbonate is only $8/lb.


But again the problem isn't the batteries but refusal to build real cost effective EV's to use the ones we have.  Just by cutting weight and better aero you can cut battery/costs by 50%.

And it's not like this isn't known as the GM UltraLite, Impact EV, Lovin's Hypercar, the Toyota 1/X done in medium tech composites get over 100mpg even on gas or 240 mile range on the Volt's 24kwhr pack. Heck even high schools are making them using Factory 5 kitcar body/chasis and doing the drivetrains smartly!!


But economics will win and if Detroit doesn't get with the program, they wil get left behind again.


2 recent details. An Electric MC, the Lightning MC, won the Pikes Peak race against the best gas bikes in the world.  It's also the fast production bike in the US.


And Nissan Group just passed 100,000 EV sales.


As for start/stop the Lead batt problem is not recharging it completely before parking will make them sulfate up and die.  And running the motor to do it is a waste. Best would be plug the car in to top thw batts up to full at least 1/wk.    


Lithium on the other hand needs not to be fully charged for long life.  OEM AGM's are likely $200/kwhr so Lithium isn't that far away. Retail on AGM's like Orbitals, Optima's are $400+/kwhr now so Lithioums are a lot closer than many think.  It's only flooded lead that holds the line at about $60/kwhr OEM and $100 retail.


For these reasons Lux is just wrong as usual. And repoters like you keep reporting them anyways. Why?  Can't you find someone who actually knows what they are talking about?

User Rank
Re: More devices
GTOlover   7/25/2013 9:19:19 AM
My garage alone has at least half dozen tools running Lithium-Ion batteries. Then you count my mobile devices and gadgets, i got at least 12 products with this battery technology!

Ann, I think you are being conservative in your estimate!

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Re: More devices
Ann R. Thryft   7/24/2013 7:56:42 PM
I'd think that each car buyer is likely to have at least 3 mobile devices and that many people who don't buy cars--like a lot of younger folks--may have even more than 3 per person.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Re: More devices
Charles Murray   7/24/2013 7:01:29 PM
Yes, naperlou, it's surprising that the mobile devices market is almost 3X the size of the other categories. In tomorrow's story, we'll see what happens to the automotive category when subsidies are removed.

User Rank
Re: More devices
naperlou   7/24/2013 11:14:34 AM
That is interesting.  That the sales for mobile devices is almost three times the other uses combined is very suprising. I say this becuase of the relative size  of the batteries. 

Also interesting is the electric bike phenomenon.  I ride a bike for exercise, so I would not be interested in this.  Also, I understand that the bicycle is the most efficient way to move people.  So, this is really a suprising phenomenon.

User Rank
More devices
far911   7/24/2013 9:44:40 AM
Even though a new kind of battery is in order, Li-Ion is still serving nicely for mobile devices. Good to know its making way to more and more mobile devices.

<<  <  Page 2/2

Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
A database containing information on over 16,000 tests done on 500 composites and other materials for wind turbine blades is now available free from Sandia National Laboratories.
Imagine being able to illegally download a physical product the same way you can with music and videos. That’s basically what’s happening with 3D printing and digital manufacturing, with huge repercussions in the intellectual property domain.
Our latest Design News Quick Poll reveals that readers are facing serious cyber security challenges.
Ford will be the first automaker to commercially use Alcoa's tough & fast Micromill aluminum alloy process and materials, debuting on several 2016 F-150 truck components. Alcoa will also license its Micromill process and materials technology to Danieli Group.
Even as an increasing number of instrument manufacturers migrate toward modern touch screens, many engineers say they still prefer the tactile feel of knobs and buttons, a new survey says.
Design News Webinar Series
10/1/2015 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
9/10/2015 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
10/20/2015 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
11/10/2015 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Oct 19 - 23, Embedded System Design Techniques™ - Driver Design Patterns and the Internet
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6 |  7

Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2015 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service