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CharlesM
User Rank
Gold
Re: Perspective and fairness
CharlesM   6/26/2013 5:25:35 PM
NO RATINGS
...what about the other costs that add up to your bills. I think we should look at how much we spend on fuel including taxes and other chargers.

I don't follow. This is just a fuel calculator. KBB and Edmunds have total cost calculators.  I think one of the points of DOE's is to show that electricity has not risen like gasoline has and is almost impervious to periodic spikes. That's because the supply/demand is steady or at least predictable, and there is a portfolio of various fuel sources that compete to make electricity. So this is a big benefit over oil. ICEs are stuck with oil and can't lower their consumption easily or by very much.

Oddly, the USA Today column linked to by Mr. Murray tried to imply the opposite, that we're due for some big crash of the grid and big price spikes if too many EVs are sold before we upgrade the grid! Like there's any possibility that might happen!! But yes, let's upgrade the grid now. Why would we not do that, with or without EVs?

shehan
User Rank
Gold
Re: Perspective and fairness
shehan   6/26/2013 4:56:08 PM
NO RATINGS
@Charles – Yes the calculator looks at the fuel or energy cost, what about the other costs that add up to your bills. I think we should look at how much we spend on fuel including taxes and other chargers. 

shehan
User Rank
Gold
Re: Dire needs
shehan   6/26/2013 4:53:49 PM
NO RATINGS
@saw911 – We are already seeing many Electric cars on the market, the question is how is electricity generated? (Gasoline, Nuclear power plants, or renewable energy sources). I think we need to look at ways of powering cars from renewable energy sources.  

CharlesM
User Rank
Gold
Re: But what about doubling our miles per gallon for free?
CharlesM   6/26/2013 1:43:41 PM
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Except that in California they all demand their air conditioners.

Really?! I lived in southern Cal. for many years and AC was not used there nearly as much as it is here in the upper (humid) southeast, and even less so in northern Cal. Of course there are desert regions there but not so populous. There's also Arizona, Nevada, NM, Texas, and many other high pop areas where it's much hotter or more humid than California.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: But what about doubling our miles per gallon for free?
William K.   6/26/2013 1:29:44 PM
NO RATINGS
For the biggest simple gain in city traffic MPG, nothing would beat the stop-start system with added manual control. Except that in California they all demand their air conditioners. But it would work well in all of the normal world.

CharlesM
User Rank
Gold
Re: But what about doubling our miles per gallon for free?
CharlesM   6/26/2013 10:38:36 AM
NO RATINGS
There is another way to make vast improvements in fuel economy, and it does not require any change in the vehicles at all. That method is to improve traffic flow and reduce or eliminate all of the waiting times when the MPG of any vehicle is ZERO!

Agreed. Let's do more to improve traffic flow. Except a lot of $$$ already gets invested in that and the general trend still is toward slower traffic. The equivalent MPG for an EV in that scenario, though, approaches INFINITY!

Jus' sayin'.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Perspective and fairness
William K.   6/25/2013 4:50:08 PM
NO RATINGS
There is a method data analysis process called "the method of selected points", which allows almost any data set to support almost any assumption. 

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Re: But what about doubling our miles per gallon for free?
William K.   6/25/2013 4:39:02 PM
NO RATINGS
No, I REALLY don't want to move anywhere, especially not Amsterdam. I don't claim that my proposed solutions can be implemented, only yhat they would provide the desired results. It would be up to others, (Possibly a king or emperor) to make them happen. Possibly a hundred years ago those kind of rules might have passed, but I don't think that would happen today. BUT that does not make them bad ideas, only unworkable.

CharlesM
User Rank
Gold
Re: Perspective and fairness
CharlesM   6/25/2013 9:57:16 AM
NO RATINGS
...carbon dioxide. And now it has become the villian because some folks say that it is trapping the sun's heat. It may also be reflecting heat back into space, and, in a more interesting possibility, it may be that  global warming causes increases of carbon dioxide.

Please point to any scientific study that casts doubt as to whether CO2 traps more heat or to one that theorizes that CO2 reflects more heat or rises as a result of GW.

Elizabeth M
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Perspective and fairness
Elizabeth M   6/25/2013 6:21:19 AM
In my opinion, William K., I think sometimes politics is involved in these arguments against particular technologies. The oil and automobile lobbies have traditionally been so strong in the U.S. that they seem to find something wrong (and can vocalize it and get support for their dissent) with anything that could be a threat to them. I think the reason some of these alternative vehicle technologies have not taken off has nothing to do with the science of them, and I'm sure many would agree.

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