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Elizabeth M
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Perspective and fairness
Elizabeth M   6/24/2013 5:44:03 AM
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I think though maybe this tool can't possibly factor in everything it could help achieve its goal, which is garner support for EVs. One tool can't possibly calculate all the costs accurately but it can make people think. Sometimes I think in terms of these things one has to consider the forest for the trees and not get too bogged down in the details.

far911
User Rank
Silver
Re: DOE AND COMPARISON
far911   6/23/2013 8:25:01 AM
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I think a better way to go about would be to use solar energy in conjunction with charging stations so that there's always a backup source around. 

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
DOE AND COMPARISON
bobjengr   6/22/2013 7:35:57 PM
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I agree Elizabeth.  A method for comparison is good thinking and tremendously helpful.  With electric cars being so expensive, a method to calculate ROI is very desirable.  Even with government rebates, the initial cost is a tough one to overcome for individuals making average salaries.  I would love to see the manufacturers publish a listing of annual maintenance expenses.  This would further aid efforts when a consumer is in the process of making a decision. Good post Charles. 

naperlou
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Perspective and fairness
naperlou   6/22/2013 7:11:23 PM
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Debra, your three points are patently not true.

1. There are far fewer charging stations that gasoline fueling stations.  Since the range of electric vehicles is shorter than that for gasoline powered vehicles, you WILL spend MORE time looking for a charging station.  If you are charging at home, then your vehicle will probably not be avialable if there is someting that comes up late at night.  In a gasoline powered car, you can really just jump in and go.  Also, if your electric vehicle completely runs out of charge, you will need to have it towed.  In some cases, the battery will be no longer functional, and you will be out a lot of money.  With gasoline, I can carry a few pounds of fuel and have 15 to 30 miles range.  That is a lot cheaper and easier that dealing with a dead battery on an electric vehicle.

2. I never stay more than a few minutes (less than 10) at a gasoline station.  Since they are open air facilities, I expect that the amount of fumes I breathe is very small.

3. Look at the web site referenced in Chuck's comment right below yours.  Unless the electric power you use is generated by nuclear, hydro, wind or solar (in order of amount currently generated), then you are contributing to greenhouse gasses.  I tend to believe that we can control them fairly effectively at the power plant, but that is not clear.  In addition, your gasoline powered car puts out only miniscule amounts of greenhouse gases besided CO2.  It fact, it puts out CO2 in an attempt to lower the amount of other, much worse, greenhouse gases.  CO2 has beneficila effects as well as expected negative effects (e.g., increased plant growth), many of the others do not (e.g., NOX).  Also, you mention our childrens health.  One of the biggest effects could be the power plants used the generate the electricity for you electric vehicle (we have a couple of plants in Chicago that are controversial in that way).  Consider, though, that our children are expected to live much longer than we are.  I am not sure of what is happening there, but that is the trend, not what you imply.

 

The US is down to greenhouse gas levels last seen 20 years ago.  Some of that decrease was the economic downturn.  Much of it is the increase in efficiency of everything from cars to appliances to computers. 

Debera Harward
User Rank
Silver
Re: Perspective and fairness
Debera Harward   6/22/2013 5:52:21 PM
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Initially every new technology have advantages and drawbacks same is the case with electric cars, no doubt electric cars are expensive but that cost is just one time and it will save your feul cost throughout your life time . One should look at the below mentioned advantages of the electric cars as well.

1.It saves time and energy , time you spend to find a feul station an get it filled .

2. It is not good for health to stay long on feul stations because the fumes are harmfull .

3.Every time we get the cars feuled up we contribute to global warming this is very costly matter that we are paying in terms of ourchildrens health . Electric cars are hybrid cars pollutio free cars.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
USA Today view
Charles Murray   6/22/2013 4:53:04 PM
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a.saji
User Rank
Silver
Re: "Everything has emissions, but sometimes they are just further away from the user."
a.saji   6/21/2013 11:55:40 PM
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Sounds good to me since this can save some bucks for most of us. Only concern is that how secure is it ?    

Critic
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Dire needs
Critic   6/21/2013 10:40:24 PM
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You're not tied to fossil fuels???  How will you decide how the power you use to charge your car from the grid is generated?  You might need to install a smoking diesel generator in your back yard so you are sure where the power comes from!

Critic
User Rank
Platinum
"Everything has emissions, but sometimes they are just further away from the user."
Critic   6/21/2013 10:35:38 PM
NO RATINGS
How about this:  http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/03/th-dirtly-little-secret-of-electric-cars-theyre-not-very-green/

Or this:  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22001356

 

BrusselsSprout
User Rank
Gold
Re: Perspective and fairness
BrusselsSprout   6/21/2013 6:49:56 PM
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Somewhere between 2016 and 2020 electricity from PV panels is expected to be as cheap as from burning coal, subsidies aside. And such electricity, while not perfect or baseload, won't kill us slowly while in normal use.

This is a good example of how subsidies distort good decision making.  Taking into account what energy costs we can identify to produce a PV cell, the associated aluminum framing, transport and installation, makes PV installations a fools choice for grid connected end users.  Calculate the amount of energy generated by an instalation over the actual lifetime of the solar cells, about 10 to 15 years in my climate, and you find that they never make up the energy required to make and install them.

Currently, the only time PV panels make sense is when they are employed in applications where there is no access to a power grid.  You would never know that considering how many are installed on homes in our community, except that they are being installed with my money.

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