HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
<<  <  Page 4/5  >  >>
TJ McDermott
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Infrastructure demand
TJ McDermott   6/12/2013 11:04:17 AM
NO RATINGS
Even if the electrical distribution network were capable of handling that future demand right this moment, the base problem of charging stations is still a huge problem.  We're talking about replacing a system of gas stations and gasoline distribution that's had a century to mature, and replacing it in less than a decade to suit peoples' desire.

 

phantasyconcepts
User Rank
Silver
Re: Market forces
phantasyconcepts   6/12/2013 10:57:29 AM
NO RATINGS
Dennis

 

The problem is not one of market saturation.  In fact, it is the opposite.  The people who really need to have electric vehicles - those whose income is mostly from driving (cab drivers and some small limousine lines come to mind) cannot afford to move to an electric vehicle because the unit price is still relatively high for a 'base' model.  Also, the guy who drives 90 miles each way to work as a software developer for a company that is paying him H1-B Visa wages rather than what he actually needs to make to pay for his student loans (well, come to think of it, it is not just the software industry that faces that idiocy now is it?) cannot afford to shell out half of his salary for a new car, regardless of how little gas it burns.  The problem is, who defines 'affordable'?  Henry Ford once said that his goal was to '..make a car so inexpensive that any man making a decent salary could afford one...'  Again, what is deemed to be 'a decent salary'?

If we really want to make an 'affordable' electric or even hybrid car, we need to look at the median American salary.  Yes, for all of you math geeks out there, I said MEDIAN, not MEAN or AVERAGE.  For non-math-geeks (in an engineering forum, that is highly unlikely, but this is a web site after all) the median salary is the one real salary that is closest salary to the middle of the pack.  Now, perhaps a better choice would be the mode (the most frequently occurring) salary, but we should settle for the median, which is most likely a lot lower than the arithmetic mean.  In fact, salaries like those of Bill Gates and Warren Buffet won't affect the median at all, nor will H1-B's sub-standard wages.  By the way, that median salary in 2011 was $26,364 according to http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/20/us-incomes-falling-as-optimism-reaches-10-year-low_n_1022118.html.  

What we need is for these vehicles to be produced at a price point that will allow that severly underpaid American worker to buy one.  By the way, I worked for under $26,000 in the late 90's.  Considering 52 40-hour weeks per year, that works out to be $12.50 per hour.  I remind you that minimum wage is less than $8 an hour in most states.  My best car at that time cost me $900 and was wiped out in a flood.  I lived in a one-room, roach-infested slum in rural Lycoming County, PA that the health inspector refused to inspect.  I am not saying that we need to lower the price to $900.  That would be impossible.  What I am saying is that if the cost of the vehicle were lowered to the point where I would be paying about $900 per year at that rate, I would have bought one.  Let's make it more realistic.  Most of the best-selling cars are priced below $20,000.  You want electric cars to sell better, price them in the low $20k range.  My Nissan Rogue cost me about $18,000 when I bought it new.  If there had been an electric or hybrid for $4,000 or so more, I would have bought it.  Instead, the closest in price was the Ford Escape Hybrid, at $35,900.  Well, that is not strictly true.  I could have bought a Prius for $32,000, but I needed cargo room.  My question to GM is, and always will be, "You released a hybrid vehicle.  It was the Cadillac Escalade Hybrid.  You took the biggest, bulkiest, ugliest vehicle, slapped in a hybrid system and then complained because you did not sell them.  Did you take the short bus to school?"

jhankwitz
User Rank
Platinum
Infrastructure demand
jhankwitz   6/12/2013 9:38:53 AM
NO RATINGS
As EVs become more popular, the need for electrical infrastructure will increase greatly.  I don't see plans in the works to build powerplants to handle the switch from gasoline to electricity. It appears that my future cars will be using far more electricity than my home. That calls for doubling the infrastructure.

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Market forces
Bunter   6/12/2013 9:12:43 AM
It will be interesting to see if this comes into being.

A couple of items I have read recently raise concerns in my mind on EVs.

One contended that a greeat deal of Tesla's income is from selling emission credits.

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/sustainability/teslas-secret-success-selling-emissions-credits

http://www.ibtimes.com/teslas-first-ever-profit-came-thanks-selling-zero-emission-credits-competitors-it-insists-its-not

If true is this a sustainable buisness model?  Are they losing money on the product itself?

On the Volt I have been reading that sales are down even though the car market is up in general.  Incentives from GM are on the way.  Are we looking at market saturation already?  And this is a PHEV that is already in the price range Musk is looking at, plenty of green cred and no range anxiety issues.  Hmmm.

IMO until the battery range is reliably (and affordably) well above 200 miles and recharging is quick and widely distributed the market for pure EVs will be very limited at any price.

Just some thoughts.

Dennis

Elizabeth M
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Affordable EV
Elizabeth M   6/12/2013 7:34:45 AM
NO RATINGS
I agree, Al, so don't worry, Cabe. It will happen, maybe not in the time frame Elon is suggesting but at some point in the near future (I hope, too!). Although 2016 seems like a doable time frame.

On another note about "lifetimes," is it me or are leaders of these visionary companies seeming to get younger and younger?? (Or am I just getting older? Probably the latter.) From his photo, Mr. Musk looks like he could be designing Tinker Toys, not affordable EVs. ;) I looked it up, though--we are the same age! I should be so accomplished...

apresher
User Rank
Blogger
Affordable EV
apresher   6/11/2013 5:12:35 PM
NO RATINGS
Cabe, You just need to be more philosophical. Affordable EV will definitely be available in your lifetime. Pretty much guaranteed. The only question is when.

Cabe Atwell
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Affordable EV
Cabe Atwell   6/11/2013 4:57:10 PM
NO RATINGS
I feel like a kid wishing for a toy. The kid would think/dream about it all day, but never get it. Despite begging and pleading, it remained a distant wish of a lost youth.

I am starting to feel the same about an affordable EV.

C

apresher
User Rank
Blogger
Affordable EV
apresher   6/11/2013 3:18:38 PM
NO RATINGS
Excellent update on this technology. It's easy to see the tipping point in creating affordable EV is hitting the lower price point while also maintaining range for the vehicle.  That will make a big difference in how quickly the technology will be adopted.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re:Tesla to Produce 'Affordable EV' by 2016
Rob Spiegel   6/11/2013 1:32:21 PM
NO RATINGS
Nice article, Chuck. An affordable Tesla could make a big difference in the development and acceptance of EVs. Recharge will become a big issue, especially the time involved. I understand that the switching batteries model has crashed, so it probably comes down to the speed of a recharge and the number or recharge stations.

AnandY
User Rank
Gold
Driving range
AnandY   6/11/2013 7:14:11 AM
EVs face issues like driving range and recharging times. Driving range for EVs can go about 100–200 miles before recharging, which is a concern on long distance drives. Number of recharge station is very less compared to number of fuel station. Recharge station and recharging time are also main issues needs to be addressed by EV manufactures.

<<  <  Page 4/5  >  >>


Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
Robots came into their own in the 1970s. Gone were the low-budget black-and-white B movies. Now robots roamed in full-color feature films with A-list actors.
The rear window on Ford's Lightweight Concept vehicle, based on the Fusion model, is made with a material combination devised by SABIC that saves 35% of the weight. The car's overall weight is 25% lighter than a standard production 2013 Fusion.
Sherlock Ohms highlights stories told by engineers who have used their deductive reasoning and technical prowess to troubleshoot and solve the most perplexing engineering mysteries.
There is still time to get in your gadgets for the Design News and Allied Electronics second annual Gadget Freak of the Year contest. The top three gadgeteers will be awarded a total of $10,000.
Major global metropolitan areas are implementing a vast number of technology, energy, transportation, and Internet projects to make the metropolis a friendlier, greener, safer, and more sustainable place to be.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
7/17/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
6/25/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
5/13/2014 10:00 a.m. California / 1:00 p.m. New York / 6:00 p.m. London
5/8/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Jul 21 - 25, Design Products With Bluetooth Low Energy
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Next Class: August 12 - 14
Sponsored by igus
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service