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Bill-Devine
User Rank
Iron
Re: Hopefully, in 25 Years...
Bill-Devine   5/17/2013 11:55:47 AM
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Miles/Day (Work) = 91.2
MPG                   = 39 (Average *Jetta TDI)
Car Payment/Mo  = $586
Miles/Mo (Work)  = 456
Total Cost/Mo       = $839.33

Using Solar to Charge Tesla S

Miles/Day (Work) = 91.2
MPG                   =  basically unlimited
Car Payment/Mo  =  $1200 (your estimate)
Miles/Mo.            = 456
Total Cost/Mo      = $1200

Neither includes maintenance but you have oil changes, fuel Filters, Airfilters and such with the fuel Car which you do not have with the All Electric.
Also this does not include any other driving only work.

My actual per year miles were about 35,000 @ $5 would be a fuel cost of $373.33/mo.  + Payment Puts it at $959.93/mo.

Almost there but taking into account lack of pollution I think for my situation it is a pretty viable option.  Add 3-4 oil changes/year at $69 each plus the filters mentioned and we are pretty much a wash on cost of ownership

 

Common sense
User Rank
Gold
Best electric??
Common sense   5/17/2013 10:41:51 AM
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Getting an award for the best electric car is like being the world's tallest midget

ungarata
User Rank
Gold
Re: Hopefully, in 25 Years...
ungarata   5/17/2013 10:40:23 AM
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NHOutbacker;

Your point was covered in the last line of my post; I purposely did not include the cost of charging the Tesla.

A more mainstream (i.e. less-expensive) vehicle will certain show a more favorable ROI, but I don't think people think about stuff like this when they purchase an all-electric car.  If the electric car is GIVEN to you, then you stand a chance to save money.  Rebates and incentives from the government just serve to push the cost of this onto everyone else and artificially drive up the sales numbers.

As well, they probably also don't consider that they're still responsible for emissions.  I believe they think that they're being responsible and driving a "clean" car simply beause they're not emitting anything right at the car while they're driving.

NHOutbacker
User Rank
Iron
Re: Hopefully, in 25 Years...
NHOutbacker   5/17/2013 10:35:05 AM
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ungarata, if you are going to factor in the cost of gas in your analysis on the gas car, you need to factor in the cost of electricity in the analysis of the electric car.  The cost of energy has to always be considered, regardless of its source.

But, if Tesla can manufacture a more mainstream vehicle, I think we all can agree that the ROI can almost match the life of the vehicle.

ungarata
User Rank
Gold
Re: Hopefully, in 25 Years...
ungarata   5/17/2013 10:23:09 AM
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mr88cet:

Yes, wind has potential.  Enough potential to supply our energy needs, along with solar?  Not a chance.  We would need generational breakthroughs and quantum leaps in technology to get to that point.  The power generation density just isn't there, as badly as we may want it to be, it's not and cannot compete with coal/natural gas/nuclear to use for electricity generation.

If we were to pull the trigger and mandate that every car made be all-electric, the entire power system would collapse.  Without new generation plants, this vision will never come to fruition - never.  A new attitude is going to be needed in Washington with regards to power generation before a world of all-electric cars has a prayer of working.  

On our current path of pushing more and more electric cars onto a power grid that is at it's limit, with no new (viable) generation coming online, this entire bid will fail, spectacularly.  Wind and solar cannot get us there - period.

ungarata
User Rank
Gold
Re: Hopefully, in 25 Years...
ungarata   5/17/2013 10:10:56 AM
NO RATINGS
Bill-Devine;

Have you ever done an ROI to help back up your statement about if gas goes to $5/gallon, this car would be viable? Let's pretend, using some plain-jane numbers, which of course I can't possibly know your situation, so plug in your own numbers to use instead for your own personal comparison:

Miles driven per month: let's say 1,000
Cost of gas: $5.00 per gallon

Current car payment: $375 per month
Current car gas mileage: 17mi/gal
Current car gas cost: $294/month
Monthly cost of payment plus gas: $669

Tesla model S payment: $1200 per month
Tesla model S gas mileage: N/A
Tesla model S gas cost: $0/month
Monthly cost of payment plus gas: $1200

So, you are going to spend roughly $530 more per month than you would a gas-burner for the life of the loan. Over the life of the loan of five years, you will spend $31,800 more to drive the Tesla. If gas then stayed at $5/gal, you would have a payback time of roughly nine years AFTER the car is payed off to recup your money in gas savings that you paid extra during the loan time.

Note that I'm being extremely favorable towards the Tesla, and not figuring the cost to charge it or anything else it might possibly need.

GeorgeG
User Rank
Platinum
Re: On track
GeorgeG   5/17/2013 9:58:05 AM
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25 years of change in New York

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G535zKtc5_Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkqz3lpUBp0

"It can't happen here, I'm telling you my dear, that it can't happen here" ... "Who could imagine?"

 

obiwon8
User Rank
Iron
I think that battery storage will be surpassed by new technology
obiwon8   5/17/2013 9:54:22 AM
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We are working on small compact Guided Laser Fusion System. It would make electric motor driven cars possible that run on 250 ml of Lithium Deuteride for 15 000 miles before refueling.

Conventional laser fusion relies on random collisions of Tritium and Deuterium ions in a plasma heated to several million degrees. The collision probability has to be high enough and the collision energy has to be high enough to overcome the mutual repulsion of the positive ions.

We start with orderly Lithium Deuteride nano meter size crystal of alternating Lithium and Deuterium atoms. A very sort, 10 femto second long, very intese laser light pulse first strips away all the very light electrons. The this leaves the positive Lithium and Deuterium ions in place for a short time. The ions are too heavy to move instantaneously. It takes them about 60 femto seconds to start to move apart under their mutual repulsion force.

The very high electric field from the only 10 femto second long light pulse propels all the ions along the crystal axis. The lighter Deuterium ions catch up in about 4 femto seconds with the heavier Lithium ions, collide and fuse. Producing Fusion energy.


Bill-Devine
User Rank
Iron
Re: Hopefully, in 25 Years...
Bill-Devine   5/17/2013 9:39:19 AM
NO RATINGS
If you put a nice solar array on your home then the displaced emissions you refer to pretty much go away.  If and when gas goes to over $5/gallon then this vehicle becomes a viable options.

mr88cet
User Rank
Silver
Re: Hopefully, in 25 Years...
mr88cet   5/17/2013 9:37:40 AM
NO RATINGS
Nuclear is fine by me, but don't write off wind too quickly;  it is far from insubstantial in terms of potential.  We have to develop a wide variety of sources.

Either way though, I'd be delighted with displacing emissions.  I don't want to see any of it in my car!  I'll happily displace the noise and oil changes too.

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