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Phantom loads = 45%?

 

Iron

Automated system could be spontaneous.

Automation-N inside another Automation --N, and inside another Automation ---N... etc Where is the limit?

Phantom loads are huge waste of energy

Thanks for allowing me to sit in late.

Iron

I liked this first slide deck. Hope the others are as good.

Hello from Toronto!

Iron

take the course offline - since yesterday was a holiday in Canada

Iron

An informative lecture...

Iron

Great to have access to the recorded sessions!

Iron

Missed the live lecture yesterday...

Iron

Taking the class offline...

Iron

Thanks all -- catch up to you tomorrow.....

 

Iron

It should be common sense to separate sensitive data and critical functionality from any publically accessible communications link.

But, if military, states, financial institutions, etc don't and are vulgernable, we can't expect our toaster too.

 

Iron

Thanks for day-one Jon.  Catch up with you during tomorrow's session.  Cheers.

Iron

Some answers to some of the questions I posed --

 

Other Pressures pushing automation upon us.

 

Fear -- It seems unrest everywhere is driving us to be more security aware.

 

Costs -- Everything is more expensive and will continue this way.

 

Conscious -- More people are aware that we squander precious resources and want to actively be a part of the solution.

 

 

Iron

Some answers to some of the questions I posed --

 

Other top level building blocks a comprehensive automation system can use --

 

Learning node -- examines behaviors and trys to deduce expected results. Goes into knowledge base. If for example, a communications failure breaks a critical control line, a node can know, in the past, evertime this happend, this was a result. As we trust our systems more, we can let them make decisions.

 

A preference node -- Your likes, dislikes, music choices, adds, etc can follow you around from room to room, building to building, city to city.

 

Iron

Its all about intelligent Demand Response.

Iron

Some answers to some of the questions I posed --

 

Other categories that can benefit from automation --

 

Hospitals - very special needs -- can cut power to non essentials to keep power to life support to maximize generator run time.

Military - quick automated security zones, linking of telemtery and data gathering systems, automated backup systems, etc


Schools and universities -- Much can be tumed turn on and turn off, but, when research is underway, it would be nice if the building were smart enough to turn off the coffee pot instead of the test research setup that you are running.

 

Iron

The on demand society we live in and the apathy is a problem. If people don't take the time to set up a programmable thermostat, you can't make them.


At this point, the technology becomes smarter. If the thermostat can communicate with the house to know for sure that no one is home, then it can take unilateral action to adjust the temperature to save energy.

It can even send out emails, texts or tweets letting you know it is taking action.

 

Iron

Unintended consequences, there's the rub.

Jon, talking about safety, it is s good practice to separate the automation control loops from the safety system.  Resets on certain types of alarms or fail-safe devices have to be manually executed through hardwired circuits, rather than enabling an E-Stop from the computer.

Iron

I feel your pain about motion detects that turn off at the wrong times. I have done motion detector algorithms and it is not as easy as it seems. It is more than a retriggerable monstable multivibrator.


When more building intelligence is added to the frey, it becomes better. For example, if the building knows the shower water is flowing, it can over ride its timeout feature of the lighting and keep lights on while you shower.

 

It is this higher level of structural intelligence that allows the higher level of functionality.

 

Iron

That is a good point about phase loss with 'smart' grids. A multiphase device can fail catastrophically if a phase drops out. Phase loss detection and protection is an important safety.

 

Iron

Scada and factory automation systems have unique problems and issues. Security is one of them.


Networks are just not as secure as we want them to be. Either by intruder or fault, a lot of potential liability exists when big machines go crazy.

 

The actual factory operations should be done on a sepparate control plane while the building automation system supervises and looks for faults independantly. It is more of a dance the two systems do as they cooperate.

Iron

I don't know of any universities who have any type of automation curriculum for home, building, energy, and safety etc.

 

It is an evolving field since the answers aren't in yet and the winners have not been chosen. But, the experiences, ideas, and environment a school offers for young minds to create is an ideal way to move forward.

Iron

We will be discussion wireless and WiFi technology in future lectures. The ISM bands and small sized radios are changing everything. Stay tuned.

Iron

While many of us would like our alarms to take a cast iron frying pan the the head of an intruder, it is a liability nightmare. Unfortunatley, a thief who gets hurt breaking into your facility can sue you. Live streaming video can protect you though if you can prove you are threateed and you life is in danger. Instead of stand your ground, it's defend your homestead.

Iron

Regulations that are made by people who don't understand the technology can be a hinderance. Your example of sprinkler systems and fire alarms are well taken. If a structure is smart enough to know where a smoke detector went off, then it can spray just that zone. The entire building does not need to be flooded.

 

Iron

Yes, echelon and lonworks have doe a very good job for what they do.

 

The problem is that unless everything can talk to everything, you don't get the full or potential benefit of automation.

 

A few years back, I came up with the "Smart Appliance Protocol", that let a building know what was plugged in, what opertating modes it had, how much power it should be drawing in each mode, what modes were interuptable, and at what prioroty level it should drop out when energy is scarce.

The problem is, everything needs to be identifieable, controllable, and able to communicate.

 

 

Iron

Alaskaman66 --

Think security for inner city. Or fire for areas in the western US. Also, an ability to remotely interact with an automated home is always there.

 Yes, a well engineered automation system can help with inner city security. If some one knows that if they break in somewhere, live video will be streamed to a remote cloud server, they may think twice about breaking in. It's kinda like putting an alarm sticker on your door. It will deter a high percentage of impluse burglars, but if someione is determined, they will get in.

Iron

I would like to develop a motion detector deterrent system that activates the dropping of a cast iron frying pan on the head of the intruder.

Iron

Hi All, Jon Here,  my answers didn't get posted. I will go through them again.

 

 

Iron

Ringing of mechanical relays or relay chatter is another fun experience in automation!

Iron

Jon is workming on your questions, but he's having technical difficulties.

Blogger

The electrical inspector in our city wanted us to install an occupancy sensor because we changed from incandescent to LED lamp in the bathroom.  Guess what?  Now the light goes out within a minute or two of getting into the shower.  The glass door of the shower interferes with the occupancy sensor.  Looking for ingenious ways to keep the light on, so we do not have to shower in the dark :-)  Going gree comes with its own set of problems!

Iron

Sir Rob, how we can earn credits or PDH? are you giving CERTIFICATE once we have finished the 5-days class?

What Mr. Jon discussed to us are not new to me since they are all use in building services. As an Engineering practitioner in design aspect, we always consider everything.

But, that's a good lecture. A point that reminisched the topic in practice. What can I say is that, Building Automation and Controls are very important in our life in all aspect as well gadgets we are using nowadays.

So long, I am thankful to you Mr. Jon for your educational presentation as well as to our colleagues attending this event, Good Evening and GOODNIGHT!

Here's another question from Jon:

Can anyone think of any automated systems that do not use these building blocks?

Blogger

@clanis:  It is under NDA -- so no!. Just contact a sales rep for info. Best bet. Little I did get looks interesting. Attended their Tech Tour (Digi LKey sponsored) -- they gave out a teasers worth of info. It seems lilke a good concept.

 

Iron

Re driving requirements: Right now the major driver is energy saving. However, there are niche requirements that might trump this. Think security for inner city. Or fire for areas in the western US. Also, an ability to remotely interact with an automated home is always there.

Utilities are increasingly using automation technologies in managing power distribution.

Iron

I have used Echelon technology in many difficult environments for over 20 years with excellent success.  Their transceivers and control modules are very reliable and offer a ready to go solution for the communications end of your designs.  I just don't know why they have not been adopted by a larger percentage of the engineering community.

Thanks Jon, good session

Iron

@DaveWR, do you have more info about Atmel's wireless TCP/IP?

Iron

One place for intelligent automation control is residential fire alarm/control systems. This whole area falls under the auspices of NFPA, a recalcitrant organization if there ever was one. One major problem with residential sprinkler systems is they trade fire damage for water damage. We need a smarter system.

lots of good resources and information at Digi-Key's web site ... search on 'home automation' to start ...

 

And it seems that LonWorks smart servers work transparently with triphasic systems. I've just started playing with these so I can't tell much...

Iron

Orod Ethernet and IP is a reasonable bet.

Atmel will be releasing a "Lite" version of the wireless TCP/IP shortly -- that does not have "High overhead" -- contact them if it is of interest. Saw info at recent course.

Iron

I've recently started to play with some Echelon LonWorks smart servers and end devices... It seems their techlonogy is ISO standarized, so why did this technologygot mentioned within the "disjoint pieces of automation"?

Iron

Jon-  You mentioned the limitations with X10-type protocol.  Is there a better, more comprehensive approach coming?  If so, what is different about it?

Iron

We are observing an incresing number of products equipped w/ a Wifi or Ethernet conection for remote controle and monitoring. Is it safe to say that the IP is the way to go for controling and monitorning for automation systems? I.e. every access point or every control and monitoing point will have an IP conection?

Iron

University of Waterloo is working on Alternative Energy and automation.

http://www.orc-reth.uwaterloo.ca/People/Professors/

You can find the various links there...

Iron

State EPAs are doing the work. The Feds keep trying to block or overrule California's tougher regulations.

Iron

For those who had trouble with the audio, you can play back today's presentation. It will soon be available as an archive. It may be available now.

Blogger

Good lecture Jon, thank-you.  You mentioned Echelon, they have excellent technology in this regard.  They have made a great deal of success in Europe & Asia.  I'm wondering if you can shed any light as to why they have not done so well here in the US.

Subject:

•Discuss Challenges Holding us Back
 
There is a two edged sword in the USA. It is the EPA.
The Federal EPA and the state EPAs are regulating automation for things that affect the environment.
The BIG question is whether they are doing so with good information about what is possible technically and what standards are being developed.
 
From our perspective, we must start with the standards and advise the EPA.
Comments?

Thanks Jon, Rob, Digikey, et. tal.

Iron

Do you know which University around the world or US, it's being working on Advance research related to this topic?

 

Iron

Jon, What do you see as some of the major security concerns regarding automation?  We have heard alot about SCADA vulnerabilities in the news lately.

Iron
Thanks very much Jon :)
Iron

Thanks Jon and Rob.

Iron

Great presentation! Looking forward to tomorrows presentation.

 

Iron

Interesting lecture, have seen several schemes over the years.

Iron

Thanks...logging off

Iron

thanks for the lecture....

Thank you for today's lecture Jon

Iron

Thanks Jon and Rob!

Iron

Good intro and overview -- thanks JG and RS.  Would like to have seen some industry statistics, major players and global perspective(s)

Thanks Jon - very informative

Iron

Question:   Are the communication protocols still a big obstacle for interconnecting automation devices?

 

Iron

Thanks Jon, great peresentation.

Iron

that 's great for us to understand those...very interesting...

I had a hard time getting it started, once I did I tried IE and Chrome. IE was cutting out and Chrome has worked wel.

 

Iron

tele-health will definitely drive automation.

 

Iron

For Automotive safety, automation is being pushed and incorporated heavily

 

Iron

We're now on slide 20

Blogger

Here in Ontario a larhe portion of the population view TOU meters as a taxing device rather than an energy saving device. We use mostly Hydro and Nuclear power.

Iron

FYI, tough time with audio today – sporadically lost connection over 15 times thus far.

We're now on slide 19

Blogger

I have a question that why our lecturer said to be mad, which I don't understand. I think he's good.

Not sure that TOU meters are as useful as hyped. Not sure that I want to reschedule lunch for when power is cheap.

Not sure that I want to lower my thermostat when it is -40C outside,


Not sure I want to raise thermostat on a 35-45 deg. C day (104F plus) when people with compromised health are in house.

Not sure I want this automated -- no matter how smart the AI!

Iron

We're now on slide 18

Blogger

PGE (California) wants all major applinces to be "smart" so that they can shut them off during peak load periods.

Iron

are you proposing home based rotating brown-outs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_blackout#United_States

We're now on slide 17

Blogger

they are significants nowadays.

as technology anew to us and part of building requirement is necessity.

resource shortages drives automation

Iron

Pennsylvania cancelled offpeak meters

Iron

right, pressure is a factor for automation

Hey, some of us do live that lifestyle!

 

Iron

We're now on slide 16

Blogger

we all know that they are equivalent to costs, because of the requirements

regulations are reason to pressure / force automation

Iron

We're now on slide 15

Blogger

Jon's question: Can anyone think of other pressures pushing the need for automation upon us?

Blogger

these are all referring to building services as required in the building, right.

COST is the driving factor here, for example CO detector or humidity detector.

 

Iron

We're now on slide 14

Blogger

We're now on slide 13

Blogger

we are already at slide 12

Phase losses on the grid will be much more than they are today as multiple sources switch into the system both from the source and from loads ... in fact, it has been stated, that power line time will not be accurate (using 60Hz for timing)

We're now on slide 11.

Blogger

Are we now talking specifically about Echelon LonWorks?

Iron

Audio was working great until slide 8. I'll give it 1 more slide before dropping off.

Iron

Audio cut outs can be minimized by pausing the audio for about 10 seconds to allow some buffering.

Iron

We're now on slide 10

Blogger

so this is what a mad scientist sounds like !!

Iron

Another reference for Phantom Loads -- found this site to have reliable info in past:

http://www.enviroharvest.ca/phantom_loads.htm

fwiw

 

Iron

audio just cut out on me again as well.

 

And now yet again!

Iron

We're now on slide 9

Blogger

1) Many households (perhaps 30% or higher) with programmable thermostats may be unable, unwilling, afraid, uninterested, or otherwise reluctant to deploy default programs or to create or deploy custom programs;
2) Many households (about 50%) set back or set up their thermostats manually, thus leaving less savings possibilities to be garnered by a programmable thermostat;

http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/prod_development/revisions/downloads/thermostats/Summary.pdf

General consevation of resources electrial, potable water etc.

Iron

UC Berkeley says 6%

Iron

Phantom loads as a percentage increase as heating and cooling requirements decrease from better building efficiency.

Many electronic items still draw power when they're turned off. It's a phenomenon called "phantom" load, and it sucks about 5 percent to 10 percent of the energy used in America's homes each year.

http://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2009/04/10/vampire-energy-save-some-cash-get-unplugged

But air conditioning is the big draw in the USA -- especially the south.

Iron

@oabushama - You should check to make sure that your Flash player is updated with the current version.

 

Question from Jon:  Can anyone think of other pressures pushing the need for automation upon us?

Blogger
@npitech - You should also make sure your Flash player is updated with the current version. If that doesn't work, some company's block these streams. The on-demand version will be available right after the show ends.

We're now on slide 7 

Blogger

My Tekmar hydronic contrrol system has a feature that allows turning off the water heater when one is "away."

Audio still going in/out constantly.

 

really, i don't know that...

We're now on slide six

Blogger

I am not using company vpn

Iron

Oabushama. Some companies disable audilo on web presentations.

Blogger

Audio is perfect for me.
THIS IS NOT A VIDEO PRESENTATION, download the slides just below the audio player.

 

Iron

tankless waterheater

Iron

thanks for tip, audio still issue even on different browser

Iron

No audio, tried troubshooting link, tried IE, tried chrome, no audio

Iron

We're now on slide 5

 

Blogger

Audio keeps cutting out...

 

Jon's question: Can anyone think of other top level benefits automation can provide? 

Blogger

Oabushshama, try refreshing your browser. The visual is the slide deck.

Blogger

senior citizens could benefit from home automation.

Iron

Some companies block audio on web media.

Blogger

Try refershing your browser to restart audio.

Blogger
cool_kuba - Only an audio stream. You follow along with the slides by downloading them to your desktop.

We're now on slide 4.

Blogger

education institutions, hospitals  ... many of which would do well to close to save energy and federal dollars

Jon just asked:

Can anyone think of other categories of folks or groups who can use automated functionality? 

Blogger

Scientists would be Educational/Academic.

 

Iron

Scientists can use automation as well.

 

Iron

But is there video stream or only audio?

Iron

We're now on slide 3

Blogger

Hi Cool,

Nothing to see except the slide shpow which you can download. Look aboive for Today's Slide Show

Blogger

@StephMcGUBM - Thanks, now I have audio.

Iron
cool_kuba - Please try refreshing your browser. Also, if you're using IE and that doesn't work, please switch to FF or Chrome. Many people have issues when using IE. 

audio is ok here. I am using firefox

Iron

We're now on slide two.

Blogger

I do not see anything? Should I ;>

 

Iron
@MazianLab - Please try refreshing your browser. Also, if you're using IE and that doesn't work, please switch to FF or Chrome. Many people have issues when using IE.

San Diego here.  Another crappy week of winter conditions - it's going to be in the mid-60's.  Too cold to go to the beach.

Iron

slides look good, audio ok

Iron

Good afternoon, everyone

Iron

Hi all - Audio is live!

Hello from Toronto, ON

Iron

Hi from California

Iron

Hello, from Austin TX

Iron

Hello from Albuquerque.

Iron

Hello from Westborough, MA

 

Iron

Hello from Rochester, New York

 

Iron

Good Morning from Valdez. Bright & Sunny today, but still have snow.

Hello from Chicago!!!!!

Good afternoon form Mexico

Greatings from Dublin, Ireland

Iron

Greetings from Eastern Mass. Balmy 75F.

Iron

Hello from Michigan

Iron

Good afternoon from Rockwell Automation in Mayfield Hts. Ohio where it's a warm one today! 82 F !!!!

Greetings from Midland TX

Iron

I am reading those slides and I think the one you've post are related too.

ahhh...ok, understood. I will go through that link and thanks for sharing.

@ronaldgomeseria IRON -- Stats on Home Energy Consumption in the USA by product type for the year 2010 as estimated by the US Government (see link eia.gov) ... just a data point on home energy use and where it is used

what are those digital_angel_316? what do you meant?

Helo from Chicago

Iron

2010 Home Use Power Consumption - http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=97&t=3

 

Space Cooling - 316 BILLION kWh (B-kWh), 22.0% ... ... Lighting - 202 B-kWh, 14.0%        
Water Heating - 131 B-kWh, 9.0% ... ... Refrigeration - 109 B-kWh, 8.0%        
Color Televisions and Set-Top Boxes - 96 B-kWh, 7.0% ... ... Space Heating - 87 B-kWh, 6.0%        
Clothes Dryers - 57 B-kWh, 4.0% ... ... Personal Computers & Related Equipment -50 B-kWh, 3.0%
Furnace Fans and Boiler Circulation Pumps - 40 B-kWh, 3.0% ... ... Cooking - 31 B-kWh, 2.0%

Hello from Albuquerque, New Mexico

Blogger

Hi from Valladolid, España (Spain)

 

Iron

Sir, I have a question in attending this class. Can I get a Certificate of Course Completion with PDH equivalent?

I am excited with the session with respect to the subject which is very important to me...

Good Evening to all!

Nice meeting you all of you here once again...

Good morning from sunny CA

Iron

Good afternoon from sunny SE Lake Simcoe, On. Canada.

Iron

good afternoon from NJ

Iron

Hello from Huntsville, Al

Iron

Hi from Panama City FL

Iron

Hello from Scottsdale, AZ

Iron

-Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

-Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

Morning everyone. You're lined up early today!

Blogger

-The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.

Blogger

Good morning everyone from Argentina

Iron

Good morning from Mobile, AL

Another good presentation, I look forward to it.

Just clik on Today's Slide Deck

Iron


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