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Charles Murray
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Re: EV BATTERIES AND 20 YEAR LIFE
Charles Murray   9/18/2013 5:59:28 PM
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AySz88 is correct, bobjengr. As it stands now, EV batteries are not transferrable. Today, it seems like every manufacturer has a different way of cooling their batterioes -- some air cooled, some liquid cooled, all having different configurations. Also, some manufacturers use flat battery packs under the floor (Tesla), while others (GM) use a T-shaped, liquid-cooled pack in the tunnel. Some day, maybe manufacturers will get together on this, but I don't see it happening any time soon.  

AySz88
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Iron
Re: EV BATTERIES AND 20 YEAR LIFE
AySz88   9/18/2013 5:06:42 PM
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Transferrable between different models of EVs? Probably not; they're not designed for that (yet). Most EV batteries take up a non-negligible fraction of the volume of the car.  There isn't really any standard battery shape or location, so there'd be significant labor just in getting the thing shoehorned into a different car.  And then there's matching electrical specifications, charging, integration with electronics, etc.

LED_LIghtingCompany
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Iron
Re: The batteries need to last
LED_LIghtingCompany   7/15/2013 9:22:09 AM
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But what are differences between them, why are price so varying??

 

LED Lighting Company

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
EV BATTERIES AND 20 YEAR LIFE
bobjengr   4/27/2013 8:24:01 PM
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  Excellent post Charles.  I'm one of those engineers that never trades cars with mileage too much under 100,000 if that often.   Life-time of any component or part is important to me as well as availability. In the southeast, it is not uncommon for an individual hoping to save money to  "shop" at the local automotive junk  yard;  therefore, one of the questions I have asked, but never gotten an answer for is:  Is a Li-Ion battery assembled in an automobile transferrable from car to car?  Can this be accomplished without spending a fortune for labor in doing so?   This is assuming there is no damage to the original system.   This probably sounds somewhat weird but if it can be done without hazard, it will be tried. 

MIROX
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Platinum
Re: Can EV Batteries Last 20 Years?
MIROX   4/22/2013 12:36:33 AM
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Any device that uses only ONE cell for power like most phones, can not be compared to EV, as any system that uses more than 12 batteries;be they in parallel, series, or combination - ABSOLUTLEY needs Battery management system (BMS), definitely for charging, and in case of Li batteries also for discharging.

Without properly designed and tested and verified BMS, even the best battery will have very short life span.

MIROX
User Rank
Platinum
Cost per mile is what matters.
MIROX   4/22/2013 12:26:56 AM
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It really is not of any significance how long anything can or will last, what ultimately really matters is how much it cost per measurable unit of use, be it mile, kilometer, hour, or work done.

As Engineers we all know that we can design unbreakable widget that will last centuries that will cost fortune to produce.

But consumer will almost always vote with their available resources for whatever costs least NOW, and even long term value if there is one, seldom wins.

With specific cost per fuel that has to be replenished every few days, we are much more aware of the approximate cost per mile for example, but if you have to change something like battery - even conventional starting battery - in 2, 3 or even 5 years and it cost more than even a tank full on SUV people complain about the price!

Same goes for set of tires, etc.

No matter what is the government forced warranty in order to get  ZEV credits, if the battery needs to be replaced someone pays for it, in case of big OEM the people who drive the conventional cars subsidize now the EV's.

Company that only bets their future on EV only offerings, however will have lot of trouble when the replacements will come due.

Perhaps the solution offered by few companies in Europe, may be the way to go, that is to "lease" the use of the battery, that equates the monthly or even weekly cost of driving to that of ICE.

Rob Spiegel
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Blogger
Re: The batteries need to last
Rob Spiegel   4/21/2013 3:37:31 PM
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Good point, Chuck. The resale value of hybrids could make a huge difference for middle class buyers. The EVs seem to be in the territory of a toy for the well to do -- hardly a large enough market to make the vehicles viable in the long run.

Ratsky
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Platinum
Re: The batteries need to last
Ratsky   4/18/2013 11:18:55 AM
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Charles, I think this could be a real detriment.  The whole "hot shot" chargiing technique is an attempt to mitigate both range anxiety (but this presumes a major infrastucture upgrade to place "hot shot" chargers in some percentage of fuel stations or equivalent convenient locations) and the inconvenience factor of full charging cycles (with "normal" rate chargers) lasting much of a day or night.  If it became common knowledge that this would take a severe toll in battery life, that  would certainly affect those of us who consider total life cycle costs in our vehicle purchase decisions.  Admittedly, we are definitely a minority, but a goodly chunk of the market none the less.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: The batteries need to last
Charles Murray   4/17/2013 6:43:25 PM
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One point that hasn't been mentioned by our commenters, as far as I can see: Cugnet says that fast-charging would have an effect on battery life. He suggests that users refrain from it, aside from a few isolated cases. Would that affect the desirability of electric cars?

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: The batteries need to last
Charles Murray   4/17/2013 6:18:01 PM
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It's one more reason why a hybrid makes sense, Rob. If the battery replacement costs $2,000, rather than $10,000, I might be more inclined to buy it as an old used car.

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