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Charles Murray
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Re: Unsinkable
Charles Murray   4/1/2013 7:23:02 PM
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I agree, notarboca. I think that's why so many of our readers felt so strongly about Boeing's statements. Their statements are classic public relations speak.

notarboca
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Gold
Re: Unsinkable
notarboca   3/30/2013 2:36:04 PM
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@charles, the minute an engineer hears this is more than upsetting; it absolutely goes against the grain of both training and experience.  Most of us can relate to relegating a potential problem to "that's never gonna happen," only to have it happen in real life.  Lessons like that should only have to be learnt once, and to have management proclaim there will be no more fires is the pinnacle of outrageousness and folly.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Unsinkable
Ann R. Thryft   3/26/2013 11:56:09 AM
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Chuck, I try not to remember the things I did back then that endangered my life. Although the memories did come in handy when helping to parent--or should I say "aunt" as a verb?--my nephew.

Charles Murray
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Re: Well spoken
Charles Murray   3/25/2013 8:32:29 PM
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The idea came from the readers, who within 24 hours were expressing disappointment (and sometimes disgust) over Boeing's claims. We've got a smart bunch of readers at Design News.

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: Never say "never"
Charles Murray   3/25/2013 8:30:22 PM
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Your point is well taken, William K. If they made their claims with regard to one possible cause, it would be easier to accept. But when they still haven't nailed down the cause of the Logan Airport fire, how can they definitively say there can't be another fire?

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: Unsinkable
Ann R. Thryft   3/25/2013 12:47:11 PM
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ScotCan, your example is a perfect one. I worked at companies in the late 80s where MBAs and the bean-counting, short-term-profitability concept they brought with them had a direct, negative effect on the company's product quality, performance, and time-to-market. And the arrogance...well, that was amazing.
OTOH, I also worked at a company that eventually got sold and  disappeared because it didn't have realistic budgets or product launch timelines, yet had one of the most innovative product ideas and engineering I've ever seen.



TJ McDermott
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Well spoken
TJ McDermott   3/24/2013 9:22:24 PM
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Charles, thank you for this article.  You've eloquently stated our strong exception to that press briefing.

William K.
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Platinum
Never say "never"
William K.   3/23/2013 4:16:21 PM
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If those folks at Boeing wanted to be a bit more accurate they could have claimed that there would never be a fire from whatever cause they had removed from the list of potential causes, which it seems that they have done. But there are always other failure modes that can cause problems, and getting rid of all of the possible failure modes is a HUGE effort, perhaps not even possible. On top of that, just one bullet fired from the ground could, if it impacted the battery box, cause a number of failure modes. That is more of a problem with military aircraft, but none-the-less it is another potential cause. In this day and age we do have those who do that sort of thing, like crashing planes int buildings.

On the other side, it is a wonderful thing to be invincible, and quite traumatic to lose one's invincibility. Perhaps we have some folks like that at Boeing.

Charles Murray
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Re: Unsinkable
Charles Murray   3/22/2013 6:03:16 PM
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I'm sure you're absolutely right, loadster. Boeing has to describe this as "zero risk" for legal reasons. When engineers hear those words, though, it's upsetting.

loadster
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Gold
Re: Unsinkable
loadster   3/22/2013 3:54:51 PM
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I think your article stated it correctly. Marketers and managers use superlatives without care. Engineers should be immediately alert and  be reminded to use metrics and quantitative realities they can defend. "how to lie with statitistics" is a prerequisite to every political debate.

We may not like the solution Boeing and FAA agreed upon. We may not perceive it as thorough or exhaustive or in our individual branding: safe. They are selling convenient cost-controlled air travel. We are buying or not.

Of course Boeing claims they have created a zero-risk solution. To declare anything else would admit known liability and inherent design flaw. Zero is their definition of significant figures. I'm impressed they gave as much disclosure as they did about the corrections implemented.

So flier beware and keep your will in order. And if you see something, say something. Smoke, particularly.

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