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Sorry I wasn't here live good presentation.

Iron

Good overview - hit all the main topics well.

I can still hear you 

some one should do post processing on the audio 

 

Wow a great lecture filled with lots of good sense

Answer - quick prototyping look like challenge sometimes. Personally I preffer took Kit from shelf (one from many) and start to work, and spent all time for development of parts which do not exists. By this way - quick progress and result.

Iron

thank you Bill and Jennifer, nice presentation.

Iron

Good morning from Mobile, AL

@FELiX_CZ there is a slide deck of the information the presenter is lecturing about.  There is not a video.  The slide deck button is in red, under the Special Educational Materials, under the sound bar.  I have found that it is best to log in, then bring up the slide deck, then start the audio.

Iron

Catching up, thanks Bill

Iron

Late again....thanks for keeping the material available

 

Iron

Is there also video? I can hear only audio :(

Iron

See you Bill!

Thank you, Jen and Digikey for these resources.

Iron

Thankl you Bill and Jinnifer.

Iron

Well, everybody, thank you so much for your attention and attendance today. I hope to see you all again tomorrow when we stir things up discussing the 32-bit microcontroller architectures.

Until tomorrow, then!!!

@Dave, yeah, you're right, I see a post on that link that verifies my suspicions. Good catch!

Thanks for the great presentation and discussion. See you tommorrow.

Iron

CU tomorrow. Take care.

Iron

@Bill: Have discussed this with others. Will not comment here. Enough said?

Link below to NRND notice says it all. ;-)

Iron

Folks, I need to bug out at the top of the hour. Any last questions or comments?

I THINK the LM3S (Luminary) was the family too buggy to fix. But I may be wrong.

IMO IAR has the best C compiler for the MSP430. But it's costly.

@gaun -- yes 32K -- so stated below.

Iron

@DaveWR: CCS is code size limited for the MSP430.

Iron

My Express PCB is hard to use with BGAs so after getting one I couldn't put it in.  They sent me a free sample luckily.

Iron

TI has NRNDed all the M3 line. Only the M4's are recommended for new work. LM3S is still available.

See their e2e forum for details...

http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm/f/471/t/240208.aspx

cheers

Iron

That's why I selected Microchip.  I needed a 32 bit microcontroller with Ethernet and USB (and GPIB but that isn't included in any of them).  MPLAB ICD3 didn't cost very much and MPLABX is free to any usinging it just for Microchip controllers.

.

Yes, Microchip is very focused with lots of networking interfaces with their PIC32. That's why the PIC32 parts have so much RAM and internal buffers. It's also faster on interrupt response (less cycles) than the Cortex family.

Note that for MSP430 compiler there is a code limitation -- 32K? I believe -- or you can pay the $495.

Iron

Kent, are you happy with the TI Stellaris devices? I know that when TI bought Luminary there were more than a few quality issues with the parts.

@DaveWR - Thanks Dave. I will take another look at the TI CCS.  $495 is within the budget.

Iron

@BillGiovino:  That's why I selected Microchip.  I needed a 32 bit microcontroller with Ethernet and USB (and GPIB but that isn't included in any of them).  MPLAB ICD3 didn't cost very much and MPLABX is free to any usinging it just for Microchip controllers.

Iron

@garysxt: I have done stuff over 100K so far -- it must be used as I stated -- plugged into board or with XDS100 or similar.. If you are doing your own desing you must pay the $495 at least for a one user node locked.

See note on XDS 100 here:

http://e2e.ti.com/support/microcontrollers/stellaris_arm/f/471/t/158121.aspx

cheers.

Iron

Wow, Kent, impressive history there

@DaveWR  I thought the free TI CCS is limited to 32K.  I like the TI parts and have been to a few of their seminars.

Iron

I would really love to know how to reduce cost of development(including IDE's) and cost estimation when selecting an MCU especially for 1 - 2 people companies. Also advise on how to cut costs would be great

Wow, that's a great topic. It's not as easy as it sounds ("free software can be expensive") and a bit complicated to explain.

Sorry TI CCS Version 5.3 Eclipse Based IDE with Compilers for MSP430, M4.M3, C2000 DSP OMAP Arm 7,8,9 etc.

Iron

:-) in the past, I've used the 4004, 4040, 1802, 8008, 8080, Z80, Z8, Z8001, 6500, 6802, TMS1000, TMS9900, TMS99105... and still have them in my stock.

Iron

@BillGiovino: I would really love to know how to reduce cost of development(including IDE's) and cost estimation when selecting an MCU especially for 1 - 2 people companies. Also advise on how to cut costs would be great

Iron

Pascal as a language will not let you pass or do math between different types. So you cannot pass a pointer as an integer by accident.

For some programmers that can be important. Ah, I learned Pascal back at Syracuse university. Never had the chance to use it for embedded, though.

@Bill - Yes, Cortex-M series

The Atmel Dev system looks interesting (based on Microsoft Visual Studio) but I have concerns with Atmel as a long term player.

 

Iron

@garysxt The TI CCS V3 is FREE -- it works with XDS100 JTAG or when Plugged into a TI eval/DK style board. I currently use it. It is based on Eclips.

Suggest that you get a Stellaris M4 LaunchPad Board ($15 at digikey) abd give it a try.

The Stellaris Driver Libarary is great.

Now if they only had product to sell...

Iron

Pascal as a language will not let you pass or do math between different types. So you cannot pass a pointer as an integer by accident.

Iron

Looking to move to ARM Cortex but have not found affordable softare tools that seem able to do the job.

Gary, which version of ARM Cortex are you looking at? Is it in the Cortex-Mx family?

@guan, thanks, I copied that for further investigation.

@Bill Architechture - Mostly PIC16 and Atmel MegaAVR in recent years. Did Z80, 68HCxx, NS32K, and a few others in distant past.  Looking to move to ARM Cortex but have not found affordable softare tools that seem able to do the job.

Iron

I am using the MSP430. Yes quite a bit, but the development style is cross compiler. In this way I can target different optimizations. Also IAR or CCS are ridiculously costly.

Also one more thing of note is Redhat and TI are joining together to get the gcc offering. Announcement here http://www.mail-archive.com/mspgcc-users@lists.sourceforge.net/msg11305.html

Iron

Is gcc a good compiler for microcontrollers?

Not all gcc compilers are the same. In general if you are using a gcc compiler you really need to know something about the target microcontroller architecture and write your own assembly routines to make your code optimized.

Some people swear by gcc, but I'm not a fan. I'd rather use a manufactuer's free compiler.

Is gcc a good compiler for microcontrollers?

Iron

Have worked with PIC and MSP430

Iron

My usual free, non-mfg weapons of choice are Code::Blocks with WinAVR/AVRdude underneath. I've also tried Eclipse with AVR support but liked Code::Blocks more.

Iron

@gaun   These free Dev tools .... any surprises?

Iron

@guan,what MCU are you using? are you happy with the code size?

Anybody here using free development tools? I am using the mspgcc and the mspdebug and love it.

Iron

Also swiching bak to AVR from MSP430

From where to where?

@Dave, Opps, take my question, reverse it!

@BillGiovino: Actually its the reverse.

Iron

Dave, can you tell me why did you switch from the AVR to the MSP430?

Used Embedded Linux for some of the original SmartMeter development here in TO area.

It was definitely suffering growing pains in early 2000's.

Iron

Can anyone here tell me have you used, or have you considered using, Embedded Linux?

and  why?

(Google SpellCheck is letting me down)

Architecture...

TI M3 -- but NRND now

TI M4 (LM4F120)

Now Switched to Atmel Sam4S and STM32F4 for bigger designs

Also swiching bak to AVR from MSP430

Atmel has Studio 6 -- am familiar with it.

ST is a big departure but STM32F4 is superb -- 168MHz -- FPU -- great for my work.

 

Iron

Can anyone here tell me have you used, or have you sondiered using, Embedded Linux?

and  why?

Bluetooth stack development on a TI MSP430.

Iron

PICC evaluation for a data radio app.

 

Iron

Glad you enjoyed, Dave! Yeah, I had a good ol' time in Toronto. I'm here in Bostion, patiently waiting for the next blizzard...

Bluetooth stack development.

Iron

FM radio using ATmega48V and a SiLabs radio receiver chip (4705 or 4735)

Iron

8051 for home automation, actually a SOC with RF;

Cortex M3/Cortex M4/Pic32 for a monitoring system.

Iron

Bill:

Back to work on the ST F4 Discovery -- just minor bugs mow. Looking forward to tomorrow. Notice you went to school in Toronto. Ice Storm in this area today -- weather ugly. Hope you're elsewhere.

CU later and thank you for an enjoyable time.

Iron

...and what is the project?

QUESTION - Slightly offtopic maybe. Are there any softcore 8051 processors which can be used on an FPGA. Do vendors offer any softcores?

Iron

8051/cortex M3/cortex M4/Pic32

Iron

PIC18f46J13 at the monent

Iron

Can you all quickly tell me what microcontroller architectures you are wroking with now?

Oh yes, I love FRAM.  It doesn't have the wait or pages requirement of Flash and EEPROM

Iron

Pascal: Strongly Typed language. Much more difficult to write incomprehensible code. C makes it easy to write incomprehensible gibberish.

Interesting.

I am currently getting a fractal diplay running on the STM32F4 discovery (Embest). The code for the original STM32F4 board (by ST (Keil?) I presume) is not well documented -- so much of it is incomprehensible. Getting it running takes guesswork as well as C knowledge.

It's harder to hide things in Pascal. It seems to require a more organized approach. It is not foregiving for bad programing -- which is good in my mind.


Well, for the past few years ST has been putting a lot of resources into the ST-Ericcson partnership. So there's been a cutback on R&D and support that is showing up in small ways.

Best trick of the MSP430 is the FRAM (ferrite) -- don't need power. :-))

 

Iron

Pleas destroy my email address if you have it. lol don't want those flames.

Don't worry :) BTW, I'm fireproof!

Are there any 8 bit mcu's doing the switching off of RAM or other peripherals like the MSP430?

Off the top of my head I know that ST and Microchip switch off peripherals when not in use. they don't just turn them off - they cut power. About turnign off RAM, I can't say for certain without checking my records.

@Bill: Pleas destroy my email address if you have it. lol don't want those flames.

Iron

Java is fine for Android and 1GHz+ processors -- but on MCUs??? Don't think so. I use JAVA for Android programming -- even a bad C compiler is better, imho :-(

Even a bad C compiler is better than Java - I wrote something similar on a LinkedIn group yesterday and now my mailbox is filled with flames! :)

In stongly typed languages you must make a definite cast to move a byte to a char to a UINT8 for example.

 

Iron

Are there any 8 bit mcu's doing the switching off of RAM or other peripherals like the MSP430?

Iron

Pascal: Strongly Typed language. Much more difficult to write incomprehensible code. C makes it easy to write incomprehensible gibberish.

I am currently getting a fractal diplay running on the STM32F4 discovery (Embest). The code for the original STM32F4 board (by ST (Keil?) I presume) is not well documented -- so much of it is incomprehensible. Getting it running takes guesswork as well as C knowledge.

It's harder to hide things in Pascal. It seems to require a more organized approach. It is not foregiving for bad programing -- which is good in my mind.

Iron

biggest advantage that Pascal has, is that it is very strongly typed.

Can you explain that in more detail?

Follow up on the low power. Are there any 8 bit microcontrollers doing the same thing from other vendors? Also are there any low power RAM's such as FRAM's which I have to take into account?

FRAM is a Flash-like alternative from TI for the MSP430 Wolverine series. The issue with FRAM is that it is from only one vendor and not yet industry-accepted.

.

Are there any 8 bit microcontrollers doing the same thing from other vendors? - I'm not sure I understand your question here.

Not exacty - I was not getting paid until the project went into production. It added a certain urgency in getting a solution up and running.

biggest advantage that Pascal has, is that it is very strongly typed.

Iron

Ah, @Mark. You are a Jedi!

QUESTION -  Follow up on the low power. Are there any 8 bit microcontrollers doing the same thing from other vendors? Also are there any low power RAM's such as FRAM's which I have to take into account?

Iron

@DavwWR, what advantage do you see in using Pascal?

Note about 8051 vs. Z80 vs. X86 - I designed an 8051 project in the early 80's and when time came to buy for production not a one could be purchased for love or money. A little company called IBM had designed 'em into thier new keyboard for a product that was yet to be announced - the IBM PC - and had quietly bought 'em all. I ended up doing an emergency redesign with the Z80 for the project I was working on. THe 8051 is not compatible with the 8080/Z80 and I had to rewrite the code from scratch. Neither is directly compatibe with the x86 family although there were lots of effort expended for code migration from CP/M to MSDOS. I was involved with a few projects to do exactly that migration.

Java is fine for Android and 1GHz+ processors -- but on MCUs??? Don't think so. I use JAVA for Android programming -- even a bad C compiler is better, imho :-(

Iron

Same here.. I am not convinced to use Java to program uControllers.

Thank you, I appreciate this feedback too!

Rapid Prototyping: I try to buy eval boards configured as close as possible to my desired config -- with ready to go driver librraries and lots of demos showing as many pieces of the puzzle as possible. I then scour the internet looking for missing pieces andd further examples -- and active user forums.

If possible I download and test eval versions of the IDE/Compiler -- if practical.

Since I try to use C+ or Pascal -- testing is important.

Also -- I need Ethernet TCP/UDP packetizing -- so looking through those implementations is a mus as well.

If I can find the above items, the MCU and board go on the final list -- then I choose.

 

 

Iron

Re RP: I generally rapid prototype using solderless breadboards with SMD to DIP adapters when needed. Soldering can be a real bear for the small MCUs. Designs are usually small though. Stick with mfg IDE for SW.

---

For rapid prototyping, I will use the MCU and IDE I am familiar with and focus on the unique parts of the prototype. Normally, it is a new process algorithm or a new control method

All valuable information - thank you for this feedback!

Are there any low power considerations I have to take in terms of 8 bit microcontroller? I have been using a TI MSP430 and they give options of putting off parts of RAM not in use etc. Do all the 8 bit microcontrollers have similar features?

There are some devices that will dynamically turn on and off RAM to conserve power, because RAM is power hungry. That is extremyl valuable. I know that the MSP430 is the best at doing that, I believe they did it first and one of the  reasons whhy the MSP430 is one of the most popular microcontrolelr architectures. Digi-Key has all the MSP430 flavors.

I would like a week long class on RTOS. It would be great if it was a low cost/free RTOS and could be paired with a low cost dev board so we could get some hands on practice on what we learn.

Iron

Re RP: I generally rapid prototype using solderless breadboards with SMD to DIP adapters when needed. Soldering can be a real bear for the small MCUs. Designs are usually small though. Stick with mfg IDE for SW.

Iron

Same here.. I am not convinced to use Java to program uControllers.

Iron

For rapid prototyping, I will use the MCU and IDE I am familiar with and focus on the unique parts of the prototype. Normally, it is a new process algorithm or a new control method.

Iron

I was not convinced of the utility of using Java to program microcontrollers

Thank you, that is valiable feedback!

QUESTION - Are there any low power considerations I have to take in terms of 8 bit microcontroller? I have been using a TI MSP430 and they give options of putting off parts of RAM not in use etc. Do all the 8 bit microcontrollers have similar features?

Iron

Yes, there is a software company called CCS (Custom Computer Suystems) that makes Microchip PIC compilers. Not the same as TI's Code Composer Studio.

I was not convinced of the utility of using Java to program microcontrollers.

Iron

Java being an interpreted language does not seem to be efficient for micro's (memory/cycles). Only way I think it could be viable is with a FPGA based interpreter, and I have not heard of one.

Iron

@Leo: Found the web site -- don't deal with PIC -- maybe just as well.

The TI Code Composer Studio (CCS V 5.3) is referred to same way -- was confused by name.

Iron

What's the strength to use a language such as Jave? I think it is the cross-platform ability. To support that, a OS is definitely needed. However, many applications are aimed to provide real time control or processing. Cross platform ability is the least thing to think about. So for me, I will not consider Java at all.

That's what I hear a lot. I get flamed for repeating it! :)

QUESTION - How do you do rapid prototyping?

What's the strength to use a language such as Jave? I think it is the cross-platform ability. To support that, a OS is definitely needed. However, many applications are aimed to provide real time control or processing. Cross platform ability is the least thing to think about. So for me, I will not consider Java at all.

Iron

I participated long ago (about year 2000) in a course organized at ICTP in Trieste Italy that was promoting Java on a HC09 microcontroller.

What did you think? What were your impressions? Was Java efficient or sloppy?

@DaveWR   CS makes a C Compiler compatible with the Microchip IDE known as MPLAB X.

 

Iron

Bill: Went with TI -- great software -- then it went NRND on all the M3 CORTEX I chose -- can't win.

But, I agree -- choose software IDE and compile asap in the cycle.

Dave, was it just that part or the product family that went NRND?

I participated long ago (about year 2000) in a course organized at ICTP in Trieste Italy that was promoting Java on a HC09 microcontroller.

Iron

 I learned the hard way that the less-expensive CCS C Compiler does not come with the specific PIC device files that MPLABX needs. These files are an extra $200.00. I must learn to read very deeply into mfg. docs.....

Yes, it is true, you get what you pay for. Although I know that there are zealots out ther that will swear by free compilers, they have their own personal libraries to keep thigns efficient.

@LeoSieben CCS is which IDE/Compiler???

Iron

Bill: Went with TI -- great software -- then it went NRND on all the M3 CORTEX I chose -- can't win.

But, I agree -- choose software IDE and compile asap in the cycle.

Iron

Well, the Intel 8088 "sirvives" as the 8051 today. Not the same device.

@DaveWR  I learned the hard way that the less-expensive CCS C Compiler does not come with the specific PIC device files that MPLABX needs. These files are an extra $200.00. I must learn to read very deeply into mfg. docs.....

Iron

QUESTION - If you are in a situation where you need to get a prototype out IMMEDIATElY - it doens't have to be efficient, it just has to be working tomorrow - how do you di it? What hardware do you use? How do you program it?

.

And in this situation, is hardware or software your primary concern?

Question: Intel 8088 is now called 8051? Was the 8088 considered a microcontroller? Aren't microprocessors at the heart of PCs, cellphones, etc.? Fuzzy, I guess, on the uP vs. uC issue.

Iron

Forgot. mikoe.com also has Atmel AVR support for 8 bit -=- Pascal, BASIC and C.

Iron

QUESTION - Doea anyone program microcontrollers in Java? Or do you want to?

People were asking about other labuages for embedded. go to mikroe.com -- has Pascal and BASIC as well as C -- plus their own line of boards based on TI, ST and PIC -- plus they support others.

Iron

CORRECTION

2) Go like you said - an 8-bit as a dedicated interrupt processor, interfacing to a larger 32-bit or 16-bit system controller. I see this a lot

Here's a what if. Say your application is a straightforward industrial process that can be handled by an 8 bit MCU. However, when upset conditions occur then suddenly all sorts of interrupts happen, complex software decisions need to be made, real time response is required. Would it be feasible to design a system with a seperate MCU, maybe 32 bit, to deal with the more complex software environment, rather than trying to cram everything into a one big MCU? Especially considering that upsets should be very rare..

If you are as interrupt-intenseve as you say, you have two options:

1) A 16-bit microcontroller. Why? because you have extra proessing power and don't have the interrupt overhead of a 32-bit MCU

2) Go like you said - an 8-bit as a dedicated interrupt processor, interfacing to a larger 32-bit or 26-bit system controller. I see this a lot

RTOS presentation is good idea. Maybe hardware integration, and then use.

Iron

BTW CooCOX has an IDE with C compiler and and RTOS. Free -- good for us trying to get feet wet.

ANyone here have any experience with same?

Iron

Here's a what if. Say your application is a straightforward industrial process that can be handled by an 8 bit MCU. However, when upset conditions occur then suddenly all sorts of interrupts happen, complex software decisions need to be made, real time response is required. Would it be feasible to design a system with a seperate MCU, maybe 32 bit, to deal with the more complex software environment, rather than trying to cram everything into a one big MCU? Especially considering that upsets should be very rare..

If I missed your question, sorry, just go ahead and repost.

Lots of great comments and observations here!

On 8 bit parts I've found that determining the sources of the interrupt can take more time than saving system state.  Having a part with a vectored interrupt controller can speed up the interrupt response time a lot

Excellent point!

----------------------------

Saving power is about clock cycles. not speed(frequency)

Exactly right!

Saving power is about clock cycles. not speed(frequency)

Iron

A yesterday question: Are there 64-bit microncontrollers? If not, are they forseen in the near future?

To my knowledge there are no 64-bit microcontrollers. You need a microprocessor if you are doing that level of number-crunching.

one can get around 2 level of interrupts.

I am slightly confused with the clock speeds? Is doing work fast and then going to sleep(or lower power) saves more power or doing things at slower frequency? How does 8 bit microcontroller fare in this?

Doing work EFFICIENTLY and then going to sleep saves power. Fast can mean increasing clock speed, whicih wastes power. Efficiently means single-cycle instructions, fast interrupt response times, native bit manipulation, and waking up from sleep quickly.

A yesterday question: Are there 64-bit microncontrollers? If not, are they forseen in the near future?

Iron

@ageppert -- Yes -- would need a month or two for warning and some real prep. Bet the guys at FreeRTOS would love the idea -- given enough warning. ;-)

Iron

Microchip microcontrollers have 2 levels of interrupt. Is this a good or a bad thing?

Actually, I know the PIC18 has multiple levels of interrupts, much more than 2.

@DaveWR: merging lecture and hands-on at the same time would be a great approach.

Iron

Another thing is Arduino is base on ATML MCU first. But I saw PIC32 and ARM cortex-M3 board on their list. Is it still support better Arduino?

 

Iron

I am slightly confused with the clock speeds? Is doing work fast and then going to sleep(or lower power) saves more power or doing things at slower frequency? How does 8 bit microcontroller fare in this?

Iron

First Micro was Datapoint 2200 here...

 

Iron

Bill, I appreciate the tie-back of the first micros to products in your opening slides. I have one of those Speak-n-Spells and I've always wondered what as in it. How cool to learn it was the first microcontroller!

Yeah, early I programmed 68000's but my first microcontrolelr was an 8-bit COP8 in assembly. Very cool to program!

RTOS -- even a week on FreeRTOS would be nice -- use something like STM32F4 Discovery -- $15 base -- with ethernet Base Board total $50 -- walk through a complete implementation.

Newark, DigiKey and Mouser carry the board

Iron

Why do you lecture first selecting 32-bit microcontroller and then the 16-bit ones?

.

Good catch. It's easier to discuss 32-bit and 8-bit. 16-bit is the "in-betwen" point of the two and it's important to understand 8-bit and 32-bit first, and why 16-bit is an important compromise of pwer and performance.

Bill, I appreciate the tie-back of the first micros to products in your opening slides. I have one of those Speak-n-Spells and I've always wondered what as in it. How cool to learn it was the first microcontroller!

Iron

@rich - second on free and opensource ones

Iron

Microchip microcontrollers have 2 levels of interrupt. Is this a good or a bad thing?

Iron

agree - Different RTOS each day would be good.  Advantages, disadvantages, costs, etc of each one.

Iron

Is there a tradeoff in choosing an 8 bit MCU with "intelligent" sensors vs a 16 or 32 bit MCU with simple sensors, where more processing gets done on board the MCU? Probably a question for tomorrow...

This is a question for tomorrow. It is less about sensors and more about the complexity of your code and what you want to do with the sensor data.

@richnass Different RTOS each day would be good.  Advantages, disadvantages, costs, etc of each one.

Iron

Why do you lecture first selecting 32-bit microcontroller and then the 16-bit ones?

Iron

How many level of interrupts are better?

Depends on your system. For maximum flexibility I recommend 8 or more and a programmable interrupt controller.

RTOS +1. Cover the free or open source ones on the lower end.

Iron

How important is external interfacing of memory for an 8 bit microcontroller?

Not very. 8-bit rarely need external memory.

How many level of interrupts are better?

Iron

Is there a tradeoff in choosing an 8 bit MCU with "intelligent" sensors vs a 16 or 32 bit MCU with simple sensors, where more processing gets done on board the MCU? Probably a question for tomorrow...

Next question: Is there a specific RTOS you would be interested in? Maybe go over a different one each day?

Blogger

On RTOS, I would like to learn more about the considerations where one would cross over from traditional superloops to the RTOS advantages in the 8-bit realm.

I will be discussing that tomorrow. In general, when your code gets very complicated and has multiple linear tasks, you will need some task scheduling to manage all these tasks. It's then that you need a 16-bit or 32-bit mcu and more RAM to manage it all.

Hi everyone, it's been brought to my attention that many of you couldn't hear me after Bill was finished speaking. I just wanted to again thank everyone for attending today's class, thank our sponsor Digi-Key, and remind you to join us tomorrow for "Selecting a 32-bit Microcontroller."

I'd vote yes for a RTOS class too.

Iron

How important is external interfacing of memory for an 8 bit microcontroller?

Iron

Freertos.org really has free RTOS for several processors.  You do have to buy manuals if you want them though.  About $50.00 for the manual and tutorial.

Iron

i believe interupts are very important. manufactures all have different ways of doing them, so need to pay attention on them.  there are also 'low/high' level interupts rather than edge sensitive.

RTOS lectures would be very welcome.

Iron

On 8 bit parts I've found that determining the sources of the interrupt can take more time than saving system state.  Having a part with a vectored interrupt controller can speed up the interrupt response time a lot

@RichNass-I would like a course on RTOS.

Iron

A week long class on RTOS would be terrific!

Iron

I will be discussing RTOSs tomorrow and Friday.

Which 8 bit MCU is most porpule in North America? And not is it a time transfer my design from 8 bit MCU to cortex-M3 ARM?

The most popular 8-bit MCUs in N American is the Microchip PIC16, the 8051, the Atmel AVR, and the STMicro ST9.

I see a bunch of questions about RTOSs. Would you be intersted in a week-long class about RTOSs?

Blogger

The recorded audio is available now...

Iron

Arduino is an Atmel-specific technology for interoperability and compatibility. It's mainly used for fast prototyping

Thank you for a good presentation.

Iron

On RTOS, I would like to learn more about the considerations where one would cross over from traditional superloops to the RTOS advantages in the 8-bit realm.

Iron

Yes, Microchip offers the SST 8051

THANK YOU FOR THE PRESENTATION

Thx a lot Willian A.

 

Iron

Audio is no longer real-time.

Yes. looks like we lost Jen.

Iron

Which 8 bit MCU is most porpule in North America? And not is it a time transfer my design from 8 bit MCU to cortex-M3 ARM?

 

Iron

Can you state any vendor/part examples for the interrupt servicing overhead ranges?

Well, the 8051 and the Microchip PIC16 have interrupt response times of about 4-8 cycles. that pretty fast.

I heard the blip.  You must be off now.

Iron

Did you say that Microchip offered a 8051 micro?  Are you referring to the SST parts that Microchip bought?

Iron

you are no longer on mike. :-)

Player went out of play.

Thank you very much Bill for very good presentation.

Iron

@ccmm Second the RTOS motion... fReeRTOS perhaps as one possibility?

 

Iron

Thank you Bill. Yes, I did just hear you.

Are there really numbers on the slides ? I do not see them.

Thanks much, Bill

Iron

I heard you, now is silent.

THank you Bill.  I could still hear you

 

Yep, can still hear you

Iron

Yes, you are on the mic.

Iron

I can still hear you.

Iron

Did we loose Jennifer? Hear Bill.

Iron

Thanks, great presentation

 

Iron

Thank you also Jeniffer

 

Iron

Question: Is the Intel 8088 considered a microcontroller or a microprocessor? Likewise the 8051? (remedial instruction from yesterday, please)

Iron

what is arduino then?

 

Iron

Nice Presentation....

Iron

Thank you for today's lecture Bill

Iron

Thanks again, Bill.  I appreciate it.

Iron

Thanks for the presentation.

Iron

Jennifer out of curosity, has Design News/Digi-Key offered or plan to offer a session on RTOS for microcontrollers?

Iron

Can you state any vendor/part examples for the interrupt servicing overhead ranges?

Iron

Thank you, Jennifer! I'll get to the archive once the live portion ends...

Iron

Why Lost in Space robot image?  Oh, I get it.

No problem, caa028 - welcome. You can catch up immediately following show, in the archive.

A bit late for the live session today...

Iron

Halfway through! Make sure you type your questions into the chat window.

 

SDCC is great compiler for 8051

OK, thank you Jinnifer

Iron

Sorry about that CurtD. The show will be immediately available in the archive, so you can catch up on what you miss.

Good Morning all from CA

Iron

hello from sunny Saint Louis, Missouri

Iron

Refreshing the screen helped me, gordonmx.

Iron

HELLO FROM MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA

Is there any audio yet?

Iron

Good day from sunny Phoenix AZ

Iron

Hello from Albuquerque.

Iron

@Dave_E It's raining here in San Jose and it's only 46°F.

I jusr refilled my PETE'S coffee.

Iron

Hello from Greensboro, NC

Iron

Good evening from Iasi, Romania

Iron

If anyone wants a copy of the Q&A from yesterday, you can download it here at:

http://microcontroller.com/How_To_Choose_a_Microcontroller.htm

Dave, glad I could help!

Hello from a great weather in Atlanta

Iron

@Bill Govino:

Aha! something did change! I'm not crazy!

Hmmm -- ok something changed -- I go that much right.

That notice about the IP should go on twitter and facebook. I even checked there -- never thought of an IP change -- it does not happen much.

Iron

rain in Palo Alto temp 48f, need more coffee!

Iron

IMPORTANT IMPORTANT

.

DesignNews.com recently changed their server address. If you ae having problems accessing this website you MUST perform these steps.

.

1) Reboot your router, especially if you are using a wireless router. Routers can cache the old IP address. Turn your router off, wait 30 seconds, then turn it on again.

.

2) While the router is off, flush the DNS cache of your computer. On most Windows PCs you can type at the command line:

.

.ipconfig /flushdns

 

and you will be good to go!

@Kentj  Thanks of the compliment!

Iron

Thanks for the info, Mark. A bit of history always provides context.

It's a comfortable 50 degrees F here in Boston, the warmest it's been in weeks!

Bill, Greeting from Osseo Minnesota.

At the time it came out it was NOT compatible with the 8080/z80 code set as it was a completely different internal architecture. It was incompatible with the existing CP/M OS that was popular at the time.

Oh – and 256 I/O part addresss.

True, bitbanger. To me, it's what you can do with it. The 8088 was used to move 8-bit data. some can call it an 8/16-bit core.

If anyone wants a copy of the Q&A from yesterday, you can download it here at:

http://microcontroller.com/How_To_Choose_a_Microcontroller.htm

 

The usual definition of a processor word width is the size of the accumulator or similar register. The 8088 has an 8 bit wide external bus, but the internal architecture is of a 16 bit ALU (arithmetic/logic unit).

good morning everybody.

 

Iron

Definitions vary, but I define an architecture by the size of it's data bus. That tells you the type of data that you can move. The 8088 has an 8-bit external data bus.

@mark browne, would you be from Osseo MN by chance?

Hello, everyone!


My name is Bill Giovino and I will be entertaining you with my presentation today.

DesignNews.com recently changed their server address. If you ae having problems accessing this website you MUST perform these steps.

1) Reboot your router, especially if you are using a wireless router. Routers can cache the old IP address. Turn your router off, wait 30 seconds, then turn it on again.

2) While the router is off, flush the DNS cache of your computer. On most Windows PCs you can type at the command line:

ipconfig /flushdns

and you will be good to go!

Hello from sunny warm Minnesota.

@mark_browne I agree, and have other "obversations" about that slide, but will reserve further comment until I hear what Bill has to say.

Iron

I recognize billabott as the major problem solver for arduino projects.

Iron

http://microcontroller.com/Contact_Microcontroller.com.htm

Iron

Hello from Richmond, TX

Iron

Hello from Binghamton, NY

Iron

Hi from Waterloo, ON, Canada

Hello from Millington, Michigan

Iron

Can we get an email address for William A. Giovino?

 

Iron

Greetings again, from Colorado Springs, CO

Iron

it's rainy day...START in S. CA.

Iron

Morning, coffee's good.

Iron

@mark.browne: I agree with you. Intel8088 is a 16-bit CPU though it has an 8-bit external data bus.

Iron

I'm back! The system logged me out again.

Iron

Um, slide 5. Intell 8088 has a similar number to the 8080 but internally it was an 8086 and had 16 bit data paths. It strikes me as odd to include it in any discussion of 8 bit hardware.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_8088

 

Good Afternoon from Boston!

Iron

hello from frozen Wisconsin

Hello from Arizona!

Platinum

Good afternoon, everyone

Iron

Hello from sunny Huntsville, Al.

Iron

Greetings from eastern Mass. Nice sunny 45 deg.

Iron

@AriQue - seems San Jose and Boston have the same weather today! (Hoping for no more snow days!)

Hello from Chicago

 

Iron

Good morning from Chicago.

 

Iron

Hi everyone - glad to see you all here. Don't forget to download today's slide deck early, so you're ready to go at 2 pm EST!

Hello from Longmont, CO

 

Iron

Good Morning from Tennessee

 

Iron

@DaveWR. I can connect the the archived webinar with no problem. So I suggest you check your computer system, browser and network configurations, since you can log in here.

Iron

Could not connect at all yesterday to site or webinar. Today I am getting some 503 errors as I look around Design news site.

Are you aware of this issue or is this a general network issue?

 

Iron

Hello from Edmonton, AB

Snowing, -10

Iron

Greetings from Vermont, 23F and sunny

Iron

Good Morning, I hope the network will be better today

Iron

Good Morning to all!

Iron

Good morning from Scottsdale AZ

Iron

Good Morning from Cold and Rainy San Jose, CA

It's 42°F and a High of 50°F. Snow level @ 2K Ft.

Iron

I can connect today! Wheeee!

Iron

Good Morning from Mobile, AL

I wanted to be the first one on, but I guess the early bird left the house a little to late this morning. Good morning everyone.

Blogger

@rruther2: Slide numbers are visible in PowerPoint's status bar (this is true of the free PowerPoint viewer as well).

After the first two slides, they are not numbered.

This makes them harder to follow if I have not

seen them before. Good slides Bill & DN staff.

Iron


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