Good to see you port 'C' to PIC BASIC. Would like to have a few slides on setting up modular files for various processors (as an approach, not particular details necessarily, but for a few examples) with guidelines and caveats. This is not to create a universal / multi-platform program, but to introduce the concept of being able to set up modular header type files for configuring to particular devices / platforms where porting a relatively simple application like a bootloader may make sense ...
The .ZIP file URL is properly spelled (http://www.edtp.com/dsn/bootloader-code-designnews.zip) in the text but the actual embedded HTML target when clicked on is spelled /dns/ by mistake . So copy target URL text rather than clicking on hyperlink.
I have briefly used MPLAB X, but at the same time I had just bought a ICD3 and I was having some troubles. So I went back to MPLAB 8.x for now until I get the issue sorted out. But for the short time I used MPLAB X I liked what I saw, and I will be going back to it hopefully soon.
Hi Fred, I miss past two days of lectures and you may have already cover this. Is there a recommanded dev kit to test or play around? Thanks.
@THasham: The Microchip Explorer boards are the most universal. You can plug just about anything into them. Microchip makes a bunch of pluggable PICtails that contain various peripherals. The micros are also pluggable.
Curious - are you or anyone using MPLAB-X with PICkit3 on a Windows XP machine? I could never get it to recognize my hardware. I put MPLAB v8 back on and everything works.
@JayPaxman: I don't have any XP machines that are still living. So, I have never tried it.
I have a question: are all variables global in PBP? Seems that they are and that that could get really confusing.
It also looks like there are a lot of reservered variables that add to the complication.
What has been you experience with this?
@Jeff M: They are all global. I don't have a problem with that in that I arrange them in a logical order and give them very descriptive names. I also don't "reuse" a variable for another purpose. That keeps the code clean and the logic on track.
@JayPaxman I had some early problems with my PicKit3 and went back to using PicKit2. When I instaled MPLAB-X I seem to remember the PicKit3 needed a firmware update and seemed to work after that. I have not done too much with PICs since I went to MPLAB-X a couple of months ago. All on an XP box.
but nothing anywhere about PICkit3. When I select any of those, it changes the driver names and locations. What is it supposed to do for me to help this problem?
Fred, what would make someone use picbasic insteado of C?
@caa028: There's history behind PBP. In the beginning, there were no C compilers. Every early personal computer had a flavor of BASIC built into it. So, early nerds used BASIC and it worked for them. PBP is a natural progression for some folks. C isn't for everyone. Why go off and spend time on the C learning curve when you can simply code in a goto or a gosub?
Where can I get the dev kit? and how much it cost?
@THasham: If you're referring to the hardware presented in this class, it's moonshine hardware that I distilled in my shop. You can get a multitude of similar dev kits from Microchip, MELABS and CCS.
As I am new to Microchip PIC...Could you please provied website which helps to learn PIC?
@cmpatel: The best way to learn PIC is do PIC. I suggest getting your hands on one of the many PIC books out there and building up the projects contained within them. Chuck Hellebuyck has some good stuff. You will also find some helpful learning projects in the magazines that support PIC. Try searchin on "Fred Eady" and you'll get some references to stuff I have done.
Curious - are you or anyone using MPLAB-X with PICkit3 on a Windows XP machine? I could never get it to recognize my hardware. I put MPLAB v8 back on and everything works.
Fred, looking at your code I get the impression that in PicBasic all variables are global and subroutines don't take parameters. That seems like it would make anything but a trivial program more difficult to debug.
@hwhankins: That's correct and that's BASIC. Believe it or not, it's not that bad. The PBP Ethernet driver port went smoothly and I was able to use MPLAB and a hockey puck 2 to debug.
For a class about bootloaders there has been little to no information about actually creating a bootloader. More time spent explaining basic hardware functionality such as SPI. That belongs in a different class.
@ftfSteve: I'm open to suggestions that improve the quality of the class. What do you suggest?
Fred, other than for people who know basic and don't know C why would you want to use basic instead of C?
@hwhankins: I actually have customers that use PBP exclusively in their design efforts. I think it's what you get exposed to first and what worked for you first. Also, PBP has a bunch of built-in functions that work without support coding overhead.
is picbasic more robust (ie generate smaller code) than c compilers?
if not buy the pro version of hi-tec the other compiler modes can generate fairly large code
@miket: PBP is robust to the point that I ported a C-based Ethernet driver to PBP and it worked just as well as the original C version. You can check it out on the MELABS forum or chase down the back issue of Nuts and Volts that featured the project.
Currently using MPLAB X and finding quite a few new things I like, especially around writing libraries...we use multiple different PIC32 processors and the ability to build library projects with different configurations is quite smooth.
I just got mplab X working under Linux and what I have seen so far I like. I was aware of Pic BASIC but have not had chance to use yet. Glad I came to your lecture... Thanks!
Fred, looking at your code I get the impression that in PicBasic all variables are global and subroutines don't take parameters. That seems like it would make anything but a trivial program more difficult to debug.
I've only used C and assembly with PIC chips. The PIC BASIC is easy to follow and having an example of the bootloader working with and application is useful.
For a class about bootloaders there has been little to no information about actually creating a bootloader. More time spent explaining basic hardware functionality such as SPI. That belongs in a different class.
This is hopeless. I get "blog talk radio" followed by about one second of audio and then the audio dies. Can't reload and fix it. It seems to work on archieved lectures, just not live ones. I'll give up and catch this on the archieve when it becomes available.
@drw36: Thanks, I will check it out. I stuck with 2007, since I have Word, Excel, & Outlook 2007. I mainly wanted to warn others to check it out before the presentation, rather than during Fred's avalanche of information. ;-)
@kentJ A little known thing about DigiKey is that if you print out the order form, include a check, and mail it, they pick up the shipping charges if it is over $25. Great if you are not in a big hurry. I live in Wisconsin and I can usually mail an order on Monday and have the order by Friday. YMMV
If these slide presentations were printed to PDF there wouldn't be any viewer issues. Outputting to PDF or using a BullZip PDF printer driver or similar makes this easy. Then viewing would be open.
@EbB_VT: Oh, I don't have that issue viewing with PowerPoint. But I just viewed it with LibreOffice and I see what you are talking about. LibreOffice doesn't implement any of the contrast differences. All background images are full on and interfere with the slide text.
@Fred Eady: It appears that the background feature you've used in todays deck is not compatible with non MS PowerPoint viewers.
@drw36: When I view slide 4, the right side of the first two lines ("Inform the ...", "Feed the ...") are unreadable against the black of the background image (lower part of the LCD display).
If you don't get enough snow in VT we'll truck some more up to you from Boston...latest computer hr to hr projection says 34.5 inches by 530AM Sunday in town,currently bare ground,LOL
Howdy! Just posted the bootloader source code. The code in the zip file is particular to this project. So, you will want to modify it to fit your bootloader project. The code works with the latest version of the Microchip Application Libraries. I used MPLABX. a PICkit3 and the latest version of the C18 C compiler.
A Heads-Up to all: I just looked at today's slide deck "CEC-day4-bootloaderv2.ppt".Uing PowerPoint Viewer 2007, there is not much contrast between the slide's text and background. Since I always make a PDF and annotate during the presentation, I grabbed the text from the offending slides and inserted annotations with white backgrounds. Take the time to check it out and decide what works for you.
Digikey is another great source except you have to pay shipping, handling, and tax. but their search tool is great for selecting what you want in a processor.
@rruther2: One nice thing about Microchip is you can buy one device at a time. Also you can get some free samples. I just got a sample of the 25LC1024 EEPROM. I will, however, be including it in production products.
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