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Great presentation. Thanks Warren.

Iron

Good presentation. Thanks Warren.

Iron

Have used LEDs to indicate status to user.

Iron

Have not used a power profile tool, but sounds quite useful.

Iron

Have used alkaline for consumer (availability) and li-ion for portable vital signs monitoring (capacity and power capability).

Iron

I am a software engineer, my primary focus is embedded software development. I have spent the last 23 years working in the medical device industry.

Iron

Downloading slide deck.

Iron

Hello from Beaverton, Oregon.

Iron

Still getting caught up. These sessions are going to be useful right away in my project work.

Iron

hello all from Edmonton, Alberta

Iron

the presentation is now over and would like to say thanks to sir warren for a GREAT & EXCELLENT presentation...well informative and i have learned alot for the lecture...

now, i will go for day 5 lecture to finish the whole class session. thanks also to digikey and design news for giving us the opportunity to attend the continuing education...thanks to all...

i am now on slide 17 which is clock management of the presentation...

i am now in slide 15 of sir warren presentation...GREAT, well informative!

i am now on slide 9 of the lecture...

i am now on slide 5...

i am now about to begin the presentation sir warren...

there's something wrong with the internet connection that's why i re-start again...

now i am downloading the lecture slides of today's presentation...thanks once agai sir warren...

good afternoon sir warren, here i am again for day 4 lecture...

thank you Warren for insight into power cosumption on batteries

Iron

Good Presentation - Pulls a lot together!

 

slide 10 - you name your own 'power use profile' terms that are not in step with vendors names??  Seems to add yet another level of confusion ...

RUN -->> ACTIVE?? 

...

...

DEEP SLEEP -->> STANDBY??

****************************************

Low power is very important for the reasons stated in class 1 as well as environmental and social reasons relating to energy use and lifestyle social determinants.  An interesting and perhaps, at first glance, 'fun' application is monitoring or controlling temperature in a refrigerated vehicle I suppose.  Perhaps there are bragging rights for keeping Eskimo pies at constant and sub-zero temperatures driving across the desert.  Perhaps a better total energy efficiency is to eliminate the application. 

Good engineers, being good citizens and wise stewards of the planet's energy sometimes might want to consider recommendations for a broader conservation of energy and resource utilization at the higher system levels.

Hi everyone, good morning.

Iron

Great to have access to the recorded sessions!

Iron

Better late than never...

Iron

Taking the offline class...

Iron

Audio could be a bit better though

Another solid lecture

 

I do mostly software put am moving into hardware with exploring the arduino

 

Ya software control can be used in power saving.

Iron

I have used Lithium Battery in my design.

Iron

My constrainsts have usually been capacity as well as size in my designs.

Iron

Thank you Warren for sharing knowledge. I have audio issue

Iron

Hope to 'see' everyone for our final class tomorrow!

Iron

@John- Shelf life was included on my slide since I just did a screen capture of the Energizer video. They probably include it since it is important to their end customers- probably not as important to us as designers (unless our designs have batteries in them and then sit on the shelf for a long time in inventory. Seems like it would be uncommon however.

Iron

@John- The currents in Table on slide 12 are estimates from the data sheet. These can be measured using a number of techniques- ammeter, capacitor to via a shunt resistor and a scope. There are issues with each of these techniques I cover in a previous class so take a look at previous PPTs/audios if you want more details.

Iron

@Chris- Thanx for the link on the battery lifetime article. Great to include in this chat as a resource!

Iron

@MHarkins- Power stealing (or harvesting) is a good technique to use. I will try and cover it in an example tomorrow. Thanx for the suggestion!

Iron

Jay-

On batery capacity that varies with drain rate- you are correct and it can be difficult to use manufacturers data (typically in graph form as you say) but it is possible to do some estimates that 'bound' the lifetime using these graphs. Not as accurate as you might wish, but should be accurate enough for most applications (you should be able to show that you can run for at leasy 2 years- for example- but may not be able to say exactly how much longer than 2 years).

Iron

Thank you for the lecture

Iron

So the avg current can be determined.  But to find lifetime you need to know the real battery capacity.  Data sheets won't tell you the capacity directly, because a batteries capacity (mAh) varies tremendously with the drain rate.  Even if they give a graph it's on a low resolution log-log scale and it's practically impossible to determine the capacity at YOUR load -- especially if your load varies, for example if current varies with battery voltage.  How do you know a battery's capacity?

Iron

Thank you Lauren and Warren, great presentation.

Iron

Thank You Warren & Lauren

Iron

Thanks Warren for the informative lecture!

Iron

Hi everyone. Thanx for you comments and answers to my questions.

Iron

Great presentation, Thanks alot

Iron

Thanks! Those were some great tips.

Excellent lecture, thank you Warren

Iron

Thanks - very informative

Iron

Thanks Warren and Lauren.

Iron

Telltale leds for debugging the code, then normally off.

Iron

LEDs mostly used for power/status and debugging

Iron

General informative LED functions as state indicator.

LED  to show power on.LED to show communication traffic.

Iron

One project had an LED for status. Application allowed just a short flash every few seconds. That saved a lot of power.

Iron

You might want to mention power stealing techniques where you siphon small amounts of power from loads connected to your device. 

Iron

ADC, process to complete. during thermal ramp up / down sample spacing dt/dt to avoid overshoot, etc.

Iron

ADC, communications, periodic measurements, etc.

Iron

On the current project, while in low-power mode, just looking for a keypress. 

Iron

Interrupts from external source

Iron

Most wait time waiting for user action or environmental condition.

Iron

wait sometime ADC, sometimes an signal

Iron

A typical wait is for the ADC input capacitor to settle.  When switching inputs to the ADC, you need to wait for the sampling cap.

Iron

usually only settling times for external output changes.

Iron

@johnmr - you could comment out the code which activates those peripherals over many captures, and measure the difference.

Iron

Are there simulation tools that could provide estimates of power usage, transitions, and provide averages, all based on information on the design?

Iron

On the topic of 22-year battery life, Jack Ganssle wrote a good article about the (multi-)decade from a coin cell claims from manufacturers.  His take was that things like the capacitor leakage (which I see is mentioned in this PPT) and other possible nanoamp leaks (also I would add, like Warren just did, battery life and self-discharge) make multi-decade runtimes on coin cells more or less impossible. 

The mcu is only one part, and sometimes a small part, of the power puzzle.

http://www.embedded.com/electronics-blogs/break-points/4399090/Leaks-and-Drains

 

Iron

So the current listed in this table (slide 12) - are these measured quantities or estimated?  Is it possible to measure these current?

Iron

Silicon Labs has AppBuilder/PowerAware IDE to help configuration and manage power

Iron

Have not used any profilers for power.

Iron

No power profile tools except spreadsheet

found most tools to be only loose estimates

have to manually keep track of the peripherals which may be active and must account for pull-ups manually

etc

Iron

Used Power profiler from IAR. Easier to just attach digital multimeter and capture average current

Iron

I've heard of things like powertop, but haven't used them...

Iron

I have not seen any tools available

Iron

I made my own power profile tool in an excel spreadsheet

Iron

Haven't used or seen power profile tools

Iron

Created my own lifetime profile tool from Excel.

Iron

Used some command profiling, but have not looked into power profiling

Iron

Have not used such tools

Iron

haven't seen them.  Who is providing them?

Iron

Different projects, different needs. 

I used lithium coin cells, AA primary cells, and NiCd/NiMH in different projects. 

I am going to end up with a Lead-Acid battery in a side project I'm doing. 

Lead acid (Small Capacity), NiCd.

Iron

Some variation of CR20xx 

I use Lithium coin battery CR 2032

size and weight are important factors to me

Iron

AA alkaline, size vs capacity, as well as consumer cost

Iron

Have  used 9V and AA batteries. Planning on using coin cell for a new design.

Iron

Issue for a drone design: energy vs weight, affecting range of craft

Iron

Haven't previously used. Was using power from USB. Now trying to decide between AA and coin. Size is a factor, but current draw to implement Wifi or Bluetooth is a factor

Iron

CR2032 - cost, size voltage, capacity

Iron

Supercap bank, LiPo, Lead-acid, NiCd, Ni-MH rechargeables

Primaries - CZn, Li

Iron

Solar, Thermal Auto, Marine, Aircraft, aerospace

Iron

Why is shelf life listed in the slides?  Is this important from a design perspective?

Iron

AA Alkaline, lithium coin cell, lithium-ion rechargeable cell packs.  Each was driven by the needs of the products it went in from smoke detectors, to cellular radio devices.

Iron

lithium ion primary and secondary

Iron

Have not used battery in design yet.

Iron

Ni-Mh, Lithium polymer, mainly capacity

Iron

AA, CR2032 - available for end customer

Mainly AA batteries - used to use Energizer MAX, but now use Engerizer Ultimate Lithium

Iron

LiIon for maximum capacity under load

Iron

lithium coin cells for me

 

Iron

You should really fix your audio problems

Iron

JSP: If it's big enough, it can be thought of as lasting forever. a 5,000 kg battery will do it. :-)

More seriously, energy harvesting can have a similiar effect, but usually only at low power levels. 

Sorry I'm late; power failure.

Iron

@JSP Nothing is perfect :-)

Mechatronics student 3 years

Iron

Why isn't there a battery that lasts forever ?

Iron

HW R&D, Manufacturing Engineering 15+

Staying lukewarm in Dallas

Iron

Development / test 25 + years.

Iron

Hello from Upstate New York.

 

Iron

Hello from Stockholm!

 

Iron

Hello from cold Montreal

 

 

Iron

Here we go, audio is up!

Iron

Good afternoon, everyone

Iron

Hello from Massachusetts

Iron

Good to be aboard again all.

Iron

hello from Romania, Timisoara

Iron

Thank you for the Battery information link Warren.

Iron

Hello from Chicago

 

Iron

Good morning from Oregon

Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Platinum

Also- I forgot to include the link to the Battery Video from Energizer in the reference section of the PPT deck. here it is so you can find it easily: Clickable Link

URL- http://www.microchip.com/Microchip.webcontent.provider/Video.aspx?id=G8xWeVz3x-s 

Iron

Hi Everyone-

While you are waiting feel free to post any questions you have from previous classes or topics you are most interested in about todays topic- Extending battery lifetime. I will try and address them during todays class.

Thanx!

Iron

We have hail, sleet, snow and rain today in the Huntsville area.  Otherwise, have a great day!!!

Iron

Good afternoo everyone.

Iron

Good afternoon, everyone

Iron

Ready for another great session!

Iron

Hello from Sunny SE Lake Simcoe Ontario Canada

Iron

Howdy from sunny north Texas!

Good Morning from Richmond, BC.

Iron

Good Afternoon from Sunny Boston. Thanks for the class reminder!

Iron

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.

Platinum

Good morning, everyone

Iron

HYE ALL AND GOOD MORNING 

-- SHA from Karachi,PAKISTAN

Iron

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Platinum

Good morning again from SoCAL

Iron

Good morning from Long Island, NY

Iron

Good morning from Scottsdale

Iron

Good Morning from Frosty San Jose, CA.

It's 34°F now with a High of 65°F.

Iron

Good Morning from Johnson City, TN

Iron

Good Morningfrom Milwaukee!

Iron

Good Morning from Mobile, AL



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