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naperlou
User Rank
Blogger
no files?
naperlou   12/10/2012 10:40:31 AM
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Rich, I am not sure of the statement made by Grillo regarding the storage of information.  In the end, all persistent data is stored in files.  The organization and interpretation of the data is through the program, but that is transparent to the user.  Cloud systems typically have storage integrated, but the location is transparent to the programmer and user.  There are bulk storage clouds, such as Amazon's Simple Storage Service (S3).  On the other hand, it is important to distinguish between a design software vendor that uses a private cloud or one that is hosted on a service such as the Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2).  I am using Amazon just as an example because they are well known.  Other companies, such as IBM, Gooble, Oracle and others are now offering substantial compute resources in a cloud format. 

Grillo's comment about saving often is interesting.  It makes sense, since you do not have decicated hardware locally.  That might be something the vendors might want to work on.

NadineJ
User Rank
Platinum
bargaining tool
NadineJ   12/10/2012 1:48:39 PM
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Andy Braverman's comment mirrors my experience in Design COnsulting.  Many clients will say that since there's no "hardline" work done that fee should be lower.

It would be great to get more to understand the design process.  Designing the cloud doesn't take less creativity and isn't worth less.

Cabe Atwell
User Rank
Blogger
Re: bargaining tool
Cabe Atwell   12/10/2012 4:46:06 PM
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In day jobs at larger companies, expensive  cloud collaboration software is a must. Too many people, to many version.

But what can the individual or small business use? The extent if cloud use I have ever used for jobs was a centralized storage location. IE: Google drive, network drives. Do these people have other options?

C

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Poorly understood buzzword
Charles Murray   12/10/2012 5:37:54 PM
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Kudos, Rich, for asking a question that many people wonder about, but don't want to ask. The "cloud" means many things to many people.

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
As old as "Apple-Share" circa 1988
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   12/10/2012 6:31:29 PM
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Similar to a response I made just last week, when Richard wrote about "PLM in the cloud" – (same basic idea) – I see the "The Cloud" as just a gimmicky marketing Buzz Word.

For decades, managers have been asking Engineers for the latest & greatest  WIP data. You either get a "real-time" report (where the data resides on the server) or you get a "Snap-shot in time" (where the data resides on my home drive). 

Its simply a matter of where the data resides.  Pros & Cons are obvious; it's about unrestricted control of the data therein.  The concept is as old as "Apple-Share" from the 1980's, but it's been re-packaged as "The Cloud".

Mydesign
User Rank
Platinum
Re: As old as "Apple-Share" circa 1988
Mydesign   12/10/2012 11:00:29 PM
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1 saves
Jim, eventhough marketing peoples are using “CLOUD” as a buzz word, in real working environment it has many advantages. Especially when it comes under the preview of BYOD or work at home, cloud will help the employees to access the resources or repository, irrespective of device, location, time etc.

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
Re: As old as "Apple-Share" circa 1988
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   12/11/2012 9:49:23 AM
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Point taken, and I agree -- I get the advantages – for example, being able to subscribe to a Finite Element Analysis application – essentially "renting" vs. buying software. 

I'm just trying to preach the understanding that the "The Cloud" is merely the growth of the internet phenomenon – (,,,,originally invented by Al Gore ! )   ;-)

Mydesign
User Rank
Platinum
Re: As old as "Apple-Share" circa 1988
Mydesign   12/18/2012 11:23:29 PM
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"I'm just trying to preach the understanding that the "The Cloud" is merely the growth of the internet phenomenon"

Jim, you are right.  It's another offering from IT due to its potential growth. Eventhough we are using cloud offerings in different ways (Gmail, Picasso, Google doc etc), now only peoples started marketing the buzz word "Cloud".

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
User Rank
Blogger
Re: As old as "Apple-Share" circa 1988
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   12/20/2012 2:18:30 PM
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I have learned that –(  In general  ) – the more prolific or pervasive a phenomenon becomes, that the "public masses" will latch onto anything that more easily helps them to understand it better.

Case in Point:  have you seen the newest Verizon TV commercials that depict 4G connectivity from a smartphone-?  It shows a laboratory of scientists in white jackets pulling the proverbial Dr. Frankenstein electro-lever to unleash a bolt of lightning into the anxious, waiting 4G customer's new smartphone. 

Ridiculous.  The lightning bolt must have come from "The Cloud".

Mydesign
User Rank
Platinum
Design in a cloud
Mydesign   12/10/2012 10:57:34 PM
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Richer, Grillo explained about the security and access mechanisms for cloud. But the basic concept of Design in the cloud is yet to be addressed. To my knowledge, it's something like keeping the design tools and design works in a common repository in cloud. Since cloud is scalable, it can be access from anywhere and peoples can work on its image from their own device and finally updating the changes with its original version in cloud. So the changes will get reflect to all its images in a real time scenario.

JimRW
User Rank
Silver
Cloud = Data Storage
JimRW   12/11/2012 12:34:05 PM
IMO, the cloud is nothing more than a means to offload mass data storage to a 3rd party. So, if you design in the cloud your data is stored there and anyone with credentials has access to it. The innovation, if we want to call it that, is the use of todays faster internet connections to make it workable.

I think it's a natural evolution of internet business, and what makes it a good thing is smaller companies (like the one I work for) can keep resources more concentrated on core, value added tasks and less on overhead. 

NadineJ
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Cloud = Data Storage
NadineJ   12/11/2012 3:41:04 PM
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Well said.  I think that's the literal definition.  Many "interpret" the cloud in multiple ways to justify their business practices.

cwarner7_11
User Rank
Iron
Design inthe cloud
cwarner7_11   12/11/2012 3:37:24 PM
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To me, the "Cloud" looks suspiciously like how we used to do things thirty or more years ago- one would punch up a deck of cards, then transmit the data via a telephone modem to a centralized computer, then wait for the computer to spit back the results.  (this was way before Al Gore invented the internet).  Granted, communications speeds have improved by several orders of magnitude, and data entry methods have become a bit more user friendly, but the process is essentially the same- the real design work is done by the operator at the terminal, not by whatever processor is chosen to assimilate the data into human-readable form (i.e., graphics renderings of lists of points, edges, volumes, etc.).  And with the power of today's PC workstations, I don't see any compelling need to offload the work to a remote server, unless you are designing a large, intricate system.  Even with large, intricate systems, I venture that the design process begins at the same point my much simpler design projects begin- hand sketches on paper.  The tools have improved significantly over the years, but the process is the same...

Now, as to "renting" software rather than buying it:  design software, and analysis software such as FAE, CFD, multi-physics simulations, etc., are all very complicated, and one does not gain expertise in a few minutes at a terminal.  It takes months to become profecient with a particular software package, and, usually, several days to re-aclimatize oneself to the latest "required" upgrade from the typical software developer.  this issue is especially important for the "casual" user...  

If one relies on a third party to maintain the software, one loses control over the upgrade cycle, and may find that one must spend time relearning becasue the software package has changed.  Then, there is the issue of version compatibility (I still maintain a Win 98SE system becasue I need access to "ancient" work that was created with software in a format that newer packages cannot access).  Will you be able to access your data five years from now?

And, of course, the Internet is not always available when you need your data.  Just ask the victims of Sandy how long it took to regain access to their cloud-stored data...

Overall, I see "cloud computing" as a marketing scheme for generating new revenue streams for products that are generally over-priced in the first place.

akwaman
User Rank
Gold
Re: Design inthe cloud
akwaman   12/12/2012 10:28:56 AM
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I always thought that you designed in the Cloud when you smoked a little too much weed before work!  I think that played a part in some of the world's greatest discoveries!

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Designing in the cloud, or "lost in the fog"?
William K.   12/11/2012 8:49:07 PM
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The cloud sounds a lot like a remote server, only not all in one place. Using a program of some kind that resides someplace else, and storing files in a manner that probably does not allow them to be accessed except through that particular program, and really not having any way to really know just where those files actually are, or who else may wind up with access to them, that is what the cloud sounds like to me. A great idea "except for a few small problems", and having to pay somebody for services that may or not have a value great enough to justify what we are paying.

So my evaluation of "the cloud" is perhaps a bit less trusting than many. After all, the cloud undoubtedly uses a few "buggy" programs from that company with thye buggy reputation. 

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
CLOUD COMPUTIING
bobjengr   12/21/2012 4:32:04 PM
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 If I may, let me ask--do you see the cloud; i.e. cloud computing, being  the direction engineering documentation is going?  I retired from a Fortune 500 company and we had bank after bank of storage for our CAD data--drawings, sketches, etc etc.  Accessing that storage was not that difficult but when all of the CAD files migrated to India, it really became a problem.  Access was take a number. How would the cloud alleviate that problem or would it?

Mydesign
User Rank
Platinum
Re: CLOUD COMPUTIING
Mydesign   12/28/2012 5:27:37 AM
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Bob, we are using cloud in our company for various purposes. One example is we had hosted our design service in a central server and all the design engineers can access, modify or reprint the design modules through internal cloud.



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