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Good info: Thank you Paul

Iron

Good presentation, appreciate the lessons learned and setting up a foundation for the ISM Band ...

Good forcing function to look at the CFR Requirements ...

DATA POINT:

Bluetooth is in the 2.402 GHz to 2.480 GHz range. However, maximum power output from a Bluetooth radio is 100 mW for class 1, 2.5 mW for class 2, and 1 mW for class 3 devices. Even the maximum power output of class 1 is a lower level than the lowest powered mobile phones ...

I'm not using any specific freq at this time

no i have not read that section

nor am aware of any changes

Looking forward to another great week of information

Picking up the last weeks classes 

late as is usual due to my company

blocking the audio

better late than never from sunny miami.

Using 433MHz for Data collection ... and TI Chrono Watch development -- but that's play.

Iron

Used the 400, 800, 900 MHz bands for small radios

Iron

worked with ISOTropic and directional antennas

Iron

@Ann - both omni and directional antennas

Iron

Like the term "unlock the regulations" :)

Iron

Great to have access to the recorded sessions.

Iron

Missed the live lecture again.

Iron

Yes have read don't remember the year.

Iron

Thanks Paul, good presentation

 

Iron

Good morning everyone from CA

Iron

Another Day - Another Lesson! May I never stop learning.

Iron

Thanks Paul; excellent presentation.

Iron

Thank you for the info.

Iron

Has anyone been in the prototyping phase and pursued an experimental license?  Paul mentioned that OET Bulletin No. 63 was old and dated.  Is there an upate to this bulletin that someone can point me to? Thanks.

Iron

We are talking about your antenna question here.

I think if the antenna can be changed, then it needs

testing.....  I am not 100% on this though.... ask your

vendor - we'll try to look into it more for tomorrow.

 

OK?  By now, its time to sign off.  See everyone tomorrow.

 

Blogger

Thanks Paul!! I was not clear about the testing requirements for a module developer without an antenna on board.. your advice is appreciated.

Yes, I understand your question.  It occurs to me

that we also have used modules - like 802.11

and supplied our own antenna.... We certified the

stuff afterward - that is once it became a product.

During prototype testing, it was not intended for

sale and labeled accordingly.  I will try to look at this

for tomorrow... Paul.

 

Blogger

10 Dbm is the power with 300 Kbps data rate fsk

the system developer would pick a supply and antenna to make it a functional system.. 

 

yes,
SMA connector, but what is the power of the radio??  If its

really low it may fall under different rules.

Blogger

it has an sma antenna connetor attached to it

Hmmm I don't quiet get it.  Board is

intentional radiator, but you plug in your own antenna.

Is it really LOW POWER??

Blogger

I missed your sign off message.. will see you tomorrow

Paul, Hope i didn't mislead you.. The board does not have antenna on board but isn't it still an intentional radiator.. A user can plug his own antenna and communiccate with a base station  board..

 

Very nice to speak with you all,

I am going to sign off now.  See you all tomorrow!!

Paul.

 

Blogger

More off the shelf radios for ham are coming with 900 MHz now.....especially helpful with the 440 bans due to PavePaws on both coasts.

Iron

Ham Bands, the ARRL has some charts of the

ham bands in ISM space.  This is LICENSED service.

This all falls under subpart 97 which also is afield of

our Part 15 subpart C discussion.   BTW my call sign

is WA1UDO.

 

Blogger

Thank you Paul for your advice and help!! really aprreciate it!

 

If its electronic and for sale it needs to be tested

for un-intentional radiation.  I believe that such testing

is subject to some waivers and also to self certification in

some cases.  This topic is somewhat afield of our Subpart C

discussion.  Maybe we'll do a course on Subpart B.... 

Blogger

Thanks Paul!! Our boards do not have antenna on it but have an sma connector..

Intention is to sell it to systems which would build around it.. Do you think FCC certification is required?

 

 

Regarding amateur radio, they're governed under part 97, and they're primary users of some of the spectrum that's open for ISM use, so you have to accept interference from them in those cases - not that it's likely you'll run into it.

900MHz is pretty quiet from an amateur radio perspective. There isn't much amateur equipment made for that band so it's mostly adapted commercial hardware. Most of the interference you could get from ham radio takes place below 450MHz and in the 1.2GHz band that's used for amateur satellties. They could theoretically dump 1500W on certain parts of 2.4GHz and 5GHz but I've never heard of anybody running more than a few watts on it with highly directional antennas.

Iron

We need a whole semester on the FCC regs....they are insurmountable.  I know of people who have had their video baby monitors called out by the policee....the device was interfering with police frequencies.

Iron

Does every product with digital electronics in it have to be at least verified?  If all freq are below 1.7MHz?  If it just has a tiny 6-pin PIC with internal clock, but that is 4MHz, does it have to be tested?

Iron

900MHz  Cordless phones use narrow band FM modulation

and are actually unlikely to be disturbed by DSS O-QPSK

modulated 802.15.4 signals.   We'll get into this tomorrow

and more on Wednesday

Blogger

Wonderful, Thanks for everything and

Keep up the good work.

Rodney B. Rutherford

Iron

If you embed the radio that is already certified,

AND DON'T MAKE ANTENNA CHANGES or modify it

in any way, then I believe it is usable.

Blogger

Cordless phones, baby monitors, and who know what operate in the 900 MHz band.  My experience is that this band is very noisy in urban areas.  And, if you try to operate with much power and/or gain, you will interfer with these devices.  I suspect that they have poor (very unselective) receivers, and aren't prepared to have me operating a 500 mw transmitter with a fair amount of antenna gain next door.

Iron

we won't be talking any further about FCC or certifications

after today.  Again, look at Parts 2, Subparts I and J and at

15.19  15.21  15.201  15.202,  15.203

Blogger

Paul:  If I embed a FCC Id radio in my product, is it still true that my product does not need an additional FCC ID? or additional FCC testing?

Iron

Somewhere along the way, someone must test the stuff.

If you are the radiator, then your piece should be tested.

This is a fine point and I think you should look carefully at

the sections I call out in the slide deck.

Blogger

Will you discuss situations that don't need to be tested and certified by the OEM?

Iron

Is there a value on our FCC id as they have to build a system around it

I need to reread the rules....I know that Amateur radio (ham) is in that 900 band area...I am concerned that enguneers think that it will be quiet and useful.

 

Iron

but we sell it to folks who build a system.. don;t they have to get an fc id anyway

 

If you are selling them, YES - get FCC ID

and have the boards tested and certified.

Blogger

For a part of a system, not in an end product,

I would simply have it labeled the way slide 23

shows.

Blogger

I mean do we get FCC id before we sell these boards..

 

hello everyone.

Blogger

Thanks Paul!.. I have a question..Should we get FCC compliance for a board that is not the end product but may be part  of an oem..

 

Thank you Paul and Ann....great jecture today.

Iron

Thanks Ann and Paul.

Iron

@richnass: You are hilarious!

Iron

Thanks Paul and Ann. See all tomorrow.

Iron

have used directional antenna

Thank you Ann....the archives are very helpful.

Iron

Thanks Paul & Ann & Digi-Key!

Iron

Love the last comment. I wish I had someone like me too!

Blogger

Have used both types of antennas

Iron

Studied part 15 about 15+ years ago, would assume changes since

Iron

As a reminder, you can access archives of each day's lecture on this page:

http://www.designnews.com/lecture-calend

Blogger

Have worked with directional antennas

Iron

434MHz (verses 433?) works great, especially for $6!   :)

Amateur radio uses some of the 902 spectrum

Iron

For those of you just joining us, today's questions are: 1) Has anyone listening read through Part 15?  If so, from which year, and have you been aware of changes? 2) Has anyone listening worked with isotropic and directional antennas? and 3) Has anyone listening used the 433MHz band in North America and if so, what is your application?

Blogger

vlad, I will make sure someone gets in touch with you regarding the certificate. 

Blogger

I thought isotropic was a theoretical construct.  I assume that omnidirectional is the closest there is to an isotropic radiator, (except maybe for quadrafilar helix antenna, which might be half of an isotropic radiator).  But, I'm a software guy, not a EE.  And, yes, I have used both onmidirectional and directional antennas.

Iron

I do not use that band.

Iron

Licensed Ham Radioi operation all over US.

Part 15 has to live with interference from other licensed operation

 

Iron

Has anyone listening used the 433MHz band in North America and if so, what is your application?

NO

Iron

I am having issues. I guess I will have to listen to this once it is archived.

Iron

Today's next audience question is

Has anyone listening used the 433MHz band in North America and if so, what is your application?

Blogger

Hi All,

Sorry, I'm late.

Iron

i did complete Semester I but I don't know if we are supposed to get different certificates for each Semester.

Ann if you read this post please clarify

Thanks

 

Iron

No, have not worked with isotropic/directional antennas

Iron

@Vlad...I was not enrolled in the Semester 1.....did you complete it and not get a certificate?

Iron

yes mostly at vhf, uhf freq

Has anyone listening worked with isotropic and directional antennas?

NO

Iron

A reminder: If you're having audio issues, please note that some companies block live audio streams. If you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. The show will be archived and available on this page.

Blogger

Have used directional

Iron

Yes, quite a bit of experience (real and theory) with isotropic, real and directional antennas

Iron

Yes, both types of antenna

Iron

Today's next audience question is

Has anyone listening worked with isotropic and directional antennas?

Blogger

Deb did digikey give you the certificate for Semester I?

Iron

Could Someone please tell me how to get to chat room after live presentation? Thx 

Iron

I believe that Amateir radio is regulated by Part 15....there jave been alot of changes lately.

Iron

have had products tested as unintentional radiators

not aware of any changes

They told us you will not get a certificate for the second part of this class until after Dec 31 ....when this 1/2 of the program is complete.

Iron

Have read portions, but not entire part - most recent edition - not aware of changes

Iron

aware of part 15, but have not read it.

Iron

I only read the portions that I am looking for.

Iron

Today's first audience question is

Has anyone listening read through Part 15?  If so, from which year, and have you been aware of changes?

Blogger

Ann can you please let me know how to get the digikey graduation certificate?

Iron

EE, Embedded design have not read part15

Iron

Yes, read within the the last 1-2 years.  Not aware of any changes.

Iron

@Ann: have not read part 15.

Iron

 

did anyone get the digikey graduation certificate?

Iron

Embedded developer - energy mgmt. systems

 

Iron

R&D Engineer @ NXP Semiconductors BU Automotive CAN/LIN IC.

Iron

Electronics Engineer, no current project, general interest

I'm logged in but don't see a link to join.

Iron

Need help to tie in to both audio and video presentation...

 

Iron

Embedded developer - Healthcare - Patient Monitoring

Iron

Sustaining Engineering Project Leader, mobile tank level gauging using Guided Wave RADAR.

Iron

Systems engineer, test equipment for semi-trailers, FM & Bluetooth

Iron

engineer, railway industry

did anyone get the digikey graduation certificate?

 

Iron

For those of you just joining us, please let us know your job title, the industry you're working in, and the applications you're working on.

Blogger

@2oraQ9hB   You haven't had your breakfast cereal yet?

Worlds worst technical advice - refresh your browser.  No.  It's you not me.

 

Iron

Hello from Ottawa, ON

Iron

Worlds worst web interface.  Get ready for no audio.

Iron

Hello from Albuquerque.

Iron

How do I get into the lecture?

Iron

Hello from Anchorage Alaska.

 

 

Iron

Hello from Greensboro, NC

 

Hello from Cincinnati

Iron

Hello from Chicago

Iron

Huntsville AL is (unseasonably) sunny and 72.

What am I doing inside at a computer?

Iron

Good afternoon from MD

Iron

A beautiful sunny day here in northwest Montana.

Platinum

Greetings from a balmy northern Minnesota

Iron

Good to be aboard again.

49 below zero, 9:50 AM

North Pole (near Fairbanks) AK

Iron

Hello from Cedar Park, Texas

Iron

hello all from Edmonton, Alberta

Iron

good afternoon, everyone

Iron

Good Morning.  It's -32C in Concordia Station, Antarctica.

Iron

raghu and all, Day 4 and 5 slides are now posted.  thx.

Iron

Thanks TonyD.  And thank you for the link.  Mine are definitely outdated.  I just skimmed through Part 18, and can see some new sections and some removed sections.

Iron

good morning one and all

 

Iron

Hello to everyone

 

Iron

55 degF in Minneapolis today!

Iron

Hi, JayPaxman. I think the copies in your hands are obsolete. You can find the newest version from the following link:

 http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol1/content-detail.html

Iron

Hello from Huntsville, Al

Iron

I have hard copies of CFR 47 parts 0 to 19 and parts 40 to 69.  But they are dated 1994.  Are these outdated, or are FCC regs still the same?  Or are there new regulations, but they are found in a different book?

Iron

Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. 

Blogger

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session.

Blogger

Is the sun even up yet in California? ;-)

Iron

Hello from another in SoCal

Iron

Good Morning from Cupertino CA

Iron

Hi All From California

Iron

Hello from San Diego

Iron

Good morning from Milwaukee!

Iron

68F and sunny in Laupahoehoe HI

Iron

Good morning from Edmonton.

Iron

Sunny and mild in Boston

Iron

raghu,  check back later today, and they will be there.  thx.

Iron

Slides for Thursday and Friday are not showing up yet.

Iron

Good Morning from San Jose, CA.

It's 45°F, Partly Cloudy, High of  63°F.

Iron

Good morning from unusually warm Nebraska.  Looking forward to this series!

Iron

Good morning, looking forward to today's lecture!

Iron


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