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Ann R. Thryft
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Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
Ann R. Thryft   12/10/2012 3:59:27 PM
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bob from maine, thanks for your comments on the danger to aquifers. I live in a county with compromised aquifers: so far, no chemical poisoning, but definitely, ones with levels too low to sustain a growing population, and perhaps even to sustain a non-growing one. (Hence the discussions here about desalination). The point is, once we've messed them up, fahgeddaboutit for the future. I don't see how risking one's water supply is an "acceptable risk," in any sense of the term.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: The subject is maintenance.. not alternative power
Ann R. Thryft   12/3/2012 11:50:32 AM
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Thinking_J, thanks for the input about what's behind the previous separate price drops due to better turbine performance and design. FYI, the photo caption info was taken directly from Siemens, the providers of the photo and of the wind system.
OLD_CURMIDGEON, the reason O&M costs dropped 38%was because the providers dropped their prices due to increased competition, as the article states.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: economics getting better
Ann R. Thryft   12/3/2012 11:48:54 AM
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Thanks for your comments about storage, Charley468. I agree, it's an important issue, but not one that this study addressed. Jerry, thank you also for your inputs on the storage issue.

OLD_CURMUDGEON
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Platinum
Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
OLD_CURMUDGEON   12/3/2012 7:51:52 AM
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Rob, Bob from Maine:

There's another point to consider regarding the investing of "foreign" compounds into the soil to act as a detergent.  One need look no further than the evidence that has been amassed regarding the trace levels of so many different patent medicines which have been identified in the public water supplies, lakes, rivers, underground aquefers, etc.  Researchers have identified almost the full range of these products from aspirin to estrogen compounds.

We are constantly reminded by the "health" industry why it is important to drink several glass of water per day, yet in doing so, we may actually be precipitating some negative health condition in the future.

NOTHING that occurs on the face of this Earth, occurs in a "vacuum", and as such, it is imperative that people everywhere realize this!  For every effect, there IS a cause!  The challenge has always been to recognize & isolate those which ARE TRULY beneficial, and those which ARE TRULY harmful.

jmiller
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Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
jmiller   11/30/2012 10:34:26 PM
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You are right that energy cannot be destroyed.  However, friction is just one of many forms that decreases the amount of stored energy that can be removed from storage.  And from what I have read there are not very efficient ways to store energy.  Often when energy is stored a percentage of that energy is lost.

Rob Spiegel
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Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
Rob Spiegel   11/30/2012 5:31:14 PM
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Good points, Bob from Maine. The data doesn't seem to be in when it comes to the possibility of fracking polluting water. Generally, the fracking is well below the water aquifers.

Rob Spiegel
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Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
Rob Spiegel   11/30/2012 5:25:55 PM
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Good points, Old_Curmudgeon. Let the data tell the story. There has been some anecdotal stories of gas coming out of water pipes near fracking. Others say that's nonsense. Ultimately, data will tell the story.

bob from maine
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Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
bob from maine   11/30/2012 2:43:01 PM
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IF you consider that it is always POSSIBLE for chemicals to seep from an ostensibally sealed pipe under thousands of pounds of pressure, through a seemingly geologically isolated strata and mix with an underground aquifer, and further that the possibility seems somehow proportional to the qualification and motivation of the PEOPLE doing the work, then yes, there is a possible hazard. The chemicals are not suitable for human consumption. The aquifer, once compromised cannot be either isolated or recovered in situ. We daily depend on research done by scientists and machinery and processes developed and implemented by engineers to protect us from serious and often fatal occurances. We rely on their judgement of what constitutes "acceptable risk" and most of us (but not all) are comfortable with that. There is no possibility of debate when using emotion to discuss scientific issues (thus speaks an ex politician). Yes, there is risk; No, most of us have no or limited concept of the science involved.

OLD_CURMUDGEON
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Platinum
Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
OLD_CURMUDGEON   11/30/2012 2:23:50 PM
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Bob,

Be careful WHO you seek information from regarding fracking's (possibly negative)environmental impact.  Just as in so many cases in the past 30 or so years, you'll find some very staunch opponents who base  their convictions on alchemy, and will not be convinced even by acknowledged nonpartisan scientific experts.  That's probably one main reason why I've always trusted instruments for accurate answers vs. human beings.  Instruments & domestic animals share one IMPORTANT trait ..... they're incapable of Rationalization!  Humans, NOT SO!

 

Rob Spiegel
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Re: WOW! WIND POWER ...... Who'd a thunk?????
Rob Spiegel   11/30/2012 1:42:48 PM
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Bob from Maine, do you have a view on whether fracking has negative environmental effects?

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