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User Rank
marcopolo   2/12/2013 1:35:58 PM
  The small block Dodge/Chrysler/Plymouth does not *have* any

gear on the bottom of the distributor!  Unlike a Ford/Chevrolet, the gear

is on the oil pump driveshaft and the distributor shaft has only a tang on

the bottom of it's shaft that engages a slot on top of the oil pump shaft. Makes it really easy to remove/replace them as you can only install it one of two ways!  Could the author be mis-remembering the manufacturer?  No one takes out the oil pump drive shaft when replacing a distributor...

User Rank
Re: Car makers don't offer enough support
Amclaussen   12/5/2012 2:29:37 PM
EXACTLY!  Newer cars are a nightmare to maintain.  Maybe they are somewhat maintenance-free for some 3-5 years, but eventually, a belt, belt tensioner, hose, filter, water pump, or spark-plugs WILL need to be changed... THEN the terrible design job of the factory "geniuses" will be immediately apparent!

I've just finished a "revamp" project on my old 1991 Dodge Spirit R/T, consisting of upgrading the original smallish turbo Intercooler and engine radiator with newer, larger units. These units were less expensive than the original replacements, so I decided to go to as large possible sizes, meant for other makes and models of cars.  Taking advantage of the disassembly already done to modify the car, I decided to replace the timing belt and tensioner, the water pump and all the accessories belts.  Even when I had to remove a lot of brackets, belt covers, the Air Conditioner Compressor, the Alternator and one engine mount, I had just enough space and clearance to perform all the tasks without too much knuckle chafing and bruising...

But looking at the task of water-pump and timing belt replacement on a 2006 Dodge Stratus is ANOTHER matter! Not only is insufficient space to use any hand tool, but component location and disassembly requirements make that otherwise simple task a complete nightmare, probably requiring the whole engine to be dropped from the car.

What overly optimistic (and dumb) ideas were inside the brain (if any) of the "automotive designers" that create present day automobiles? Can anybody assure that not a single component will fail before warranty ends and needs a difficult and lenghty disassembly before the vehicle is close to its true useful life?

User Rank
Re: GREAT Detective work ...
Stuart21   12/4/2012 9:24:14 PM
"What's really a total bummer is that his "discovery" went unacknowledged & unrewarded"

Absolutely. This is the penalty for offending the wage slave geniuses 'inside'. Have a wealth of experience in this area.

Solution might be to copyright your solution (& maybe a patent application) (DIY ONLY) - don't waste money on patent attorneys!!!!

Then advise Co you have a solution, cost is $xxxx, disclosure available for $xxx, (or free disclosure with NDA / NCA (Non disclosure agreement / non compete agreement) & 7 days to accept. 

Your solution is a very valuable asset & many cos would try to obtain by any means. Many have no qualms about stealing even IP, often advised by their IP counsel to do so - said counsel cognisant that lawyers always win, clients only average 50% win - & that is before costs.

Right now I would like to share some ideas with Fedex - been a customer of theirs for 20 odd years - asked them if I were to disclose it, would they agree to not use ideas without further agreement - reply is (before disclosure ;-) ) 'We do not wish to employ you'.

Stuart Saunders.

IPROAG Intellectual Property Rightful Owners Action Goup.



bob from maine
User Rank
Re: Question about design
bob from maine   11/5/2012 3:17:25 PM
Newer vehicles have crankshaft position sensors and multiple coils. Not many even have distributors, instead having coils that fire multiple cylinders. Some still use distributors and Hall-effect sensors but not many. Considering the number of trucks, vans and SUV's that had V8 engines with a similar set-up from Chrysler, GM and Ford, there were relatively few that exhibited this problem. The only "unique" aspect of this truck was a 200A alternator, 2 large batteries and a 2000W inverter to power the occasional 115VAC power tool. There may have been eddy-currents drifting around but I was never able to measure anything unusual. This same set-up has run on thousands of marine applications with no ill-effects.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Re: Question about design
Rob Spiegel   11/5/2012 1:55:34 PM
Thanks for the explanation, Bob. But it makes me wonder why this problem is not more widespread. Do most cars have a different type of setup.

User Rank
Re: Question about design
Tool_maker   11/5/2012 1:02:12 PM
  I think this is more an issue of cost rather than the desirable wear feature of steel. It has been my unfortunate experience to machine some different types of bronze that machined as hard as any steel I have come up against. But it is not a cheap substitute and in many cases is hard to justify the expense involved.

   One such application involved the weapons industry and the final product had to be Non-sparking, as it was used in a cartridge loading application that involved gun powder. Sparks and gun powder do not mix, so any ferrous material on ferrous material was forbidden, but we still needed the wear characteristics of tool steel. I had to learn more about metallurgy than I ever thought I would need, but in the end the product worked well and the customer was satisfied. Always a good thing.

User Rank
Re: GREAT Detective work ...
Tool_maker   11/5/2012 12:49:33 PM
  To back up your remark about no steel being completely without magnitism I remember compass reading when in the Army. You put the compass up to your eye so you could see both the compass needle and the sight wire attached. You lined the needle with the desired azmuth and picked your target with the sight wire. If you did it without removing your steel pot, or laying your weapon aside, the readings were very unreliable. In fact some times the steel pot could pull the needle to which ever direction you looked and if I remember correctly, you might be 10 or 15 degrees off.

  I never really questioned from where the original magnetism came, but was well aware of it being there.

Larry M
User Rank
Re: GREAT Detective work ...
Larry M   11/3/2012 11:45:04 AM

As I stated previously, no steel is PERFECTLY unmagnetized. By virtue of entropy, there must be a couple more molecules aligned than exactly 50% in each direction. With the two gears (cam and distributor shaft) rubbing egainst one another, each becomes more and more magnetized over time.

User Rank
Re: Wrong interpretation from hall Effect Sensor
btlbcc   11/2/2012 10:17:44 PM
Hall effect sensors incorporate a magent in the design (that's how they work - the Hall sensor senses changes in the magnetic field due to the motion of a distributor cam, "gear"  or interruptor wheel).  Presumably it's possible for this small magnet to eventually magnetize the distributor shaft, etc.

Another possibility might be a short circuit (or partial short circuit) from the battery to the distributor shaft.  Since automobiles use DC, such leakage could cause the shaft to become magnetized over time. 

Demagnetization would solve the problem in either scenario, but only temporarily.


William K.
User Rank
Re: GREAT Detective work ...
William K.   11/2/2012 9:42:41 PM
Yes, I have magnetized things by rubbing them with a magnet. BUT WHERE did the original magnetism come from? Engine parts are NOT supposed to be magnetic especially gears. And I don't believe that rubbing non magnetic parts with non magnetic parts would cause them to be come megnetized. That was the point. 

Where did the initial magnetization come from??

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