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Beth Stackpole
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Surprise finding
Beth Stackpole   10/10/2012 7:20:36 AM
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Given what sugars and fruit juice can do to the enamel on one's teeth, this result is a surprise to me. I suppose teeth are far more porous than aluminum, which could explain some of the differences. Nevertheless, using juice extracts as a way to prevent corrosion as opposed to toxic materials--you can't argue with that kind of green development.

NadineJ
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which tree?
NadineJ   10/10/2012 9:55:48 AM
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@ Ann: Do you have the name of the tree (common or scientific)?  A friend just came back from Morocco and mentioned a tree that's being promoted heavily for export products.  I'm curious to see if it's the same tree.

naperlou
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Re: Surprise finding
naperlou   10/10/2012 11:10:46 AM
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Beth, that is an interesting development.  Using non-toxic organics will probably result in production processes that are less toxic as well.  Then the issue is can we grow enough of the organic compound to keep up.  I doubt that is an issue with dates.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Surprise finding
Ann R. Thryft   10/10/2012 12:04:19 PM
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Beth, it's not just a difference in porosity between tooth enamel and aluminum, it's the fact that they are entirely different physical and chemical structures. What happens between aluminum and the fruit juice extract is an electrostatic interaction, which is very different from what occurs between that extract and enamel.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: which tree?
Ann R. Thryft   10/10/2012 12:04:58 PM
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Nadine, we give the tree's name in the article. It's the date palm (Phoenix dactylifera L.).

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Surprise finding
Ann R. Thryft   10/10/2012 12:05:36 PM
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Lou, you're right--date palms are grown very widely. OTOH, depending on how many it takes to produce the extract, that could interfere with production of food crops and medicine crops.

NadineJ
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Re: which tree?
NadineJ   10/10/2012 12:11:56 PM
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Thanks.  I read the article twice looking for the name and still missed it.

Dave Palmer
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Effect on corrosion rate?
Dave Palmer   10/10/2012 3:15:26 PM
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@Ann: If you have access to the article, can you tell us what the Icorr is, with and without the coating?

Icorr is the corrosion current (usually measured in mA/cm²), and is directly related to the corrosion rate.  For example, if Icorr without the coating is 4 times more than Icorr with the coating, then the coating reduces the corrosion rate by a factor of 4.

In an article released earlier this year, Dr. Gerengi showed that the extract of a certain South American hardwood tree could reduce the corrosion rate of low carbon steel in hydrochloric acid by as much as factor of 3.

While this research into "green" corrosion inhibitors is interesting, the effects documented so far have been relatively modest.  Many commercial corrosion inhibitors and coatings can reduce corrrosion rates by a factor of 10 or more.

Also, there are cultural issues that might hamper the adoption of such "green" corrosion inhibitors.  If I suggested to management that we begin using fruit juice as a corrosion inhibitor for aluminum, I doubt it would be taken seriously.

Ann R. Thryft
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Re: Effect on corrosion rate?
Ann R. Thryft   10/10/2012 3:54:09 PM
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Dave, corrosion current density values (Icorr) appear several times in different contexts. Without an inhibitor it's 3.47, at 100 ppm it's 2.32, at 500 1.84, at 1500 1.25 and at 2000ppm it's 0.98.
Regarding management not taking to the idea of using fruit juice, I think that has more to do with our Western culturally-induced industrial paradigms. People in other areas of the world, usually with a less complex economic infrastructure and greater reliance on local natural resources, take this research and its potential applications seriously. We have much to learn, or re-learn, it seems to me.

Charles Murray
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Future use
Charles Murray   10/10/2012 5:53:58 PM
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Ann, any idea how this knowledge might be employed in future materials?

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