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I like the direction of the zynq - nice presentation

Iron

No embedded vision app yet

Thank you for the presentation

Iron

I work mostly with 8-bit PICs, no vision applications yet.

Iron

No I havent implemented any yet

looking forward to today

The 3d camera info yesterday was very interesting

Thank you for your Lecture,  I cdnt log in yesterday.

Iron

Thanks Jeff; very great lecture.

Iron

Processor choices of Embedded Vision are very complex.

We need combination of most of them for some applications; it' s not easy.

Iron

Thanks for a great seminar.

Iron

Ok, see you tomorrow then.

Thank you so much for such a great seminar.

Iron

Could you please tell us about some embedded vision applications you have worked with?

Iron

OK, everyone, I'm signing off for today.  If you think of more questions, feel free to post them in the chat attached to tomorow's class.  I'll be there to answer questions with Eric.


Thanks for listening!

Blogger

@Jeff, thanks for the information!

Iron

Any idea of a company that comercializes embedded solutions such as the camera used in the Nintendo Wii controller?

 
Are you looking for a subsystem supplier?  A number of companies provide embedded vision subsystems or reference designs comprising a sensor, processor, and memory. You might check out CogniVue, for example: http://www.embedded-vision.com/news/2012/01/16/cognivues-camera-development-module-reference-make-your-next-design-memorable
 
Blogger

Enjoying this week so far! Heading off, "back in/to the future"...

 

I've been aggregating chat contents, capturing content, tidbits. Info-dense stuff is nice.

Platinum

Any idea of a company that comercializes embedded solutions such as the camera used in the Nintendo Wii controller?

Iron

See CogniMem Technologies' information on the Embedded Vision Alliance website for more on neural network-modeled chips

Any familiarity with what kind(s) of processors are used in Cognex Vision system cameras??

Sorry, no.

Blogger

Do you have any comments using neural networks for vison applications?

Check out http://www.cognimem.com/

 

They are doing some interesting work with neural nets and computer vision.

 

Blogger

BTW, It took me more like 10 min to register and login for tomorrow's goodie.  The registration page did not ask for or assign a password, I had to go thru the lost password process to get one.  FYI

Iron

Do you have any comments using neural networks for vison applications?

 
Sorry, no.  I haven't used neural networks since grad school, a loooong time algo.  However, I know that some companies are using algorithms (and in some cases hardware architecturse) that are inspired by the human visual system.  It's an intrigueing idea, considering how powerful the human visual system is.
Blogger

@WillFlanery

The Zed board sell for 300$ retail, so I'd think the BOM there would be arond 150$ or so with ZYNQ part no more that 70-80$ ... it's the 2nd smallest part of course but still decent

Iron

time to go, thanks Jeff, Eric and Ann. see all tomorrow.

Iron

l@JEFF: looks like that OpenCV demo is available only for Wndows. Is that accurate?


I do have the examples in Linux as well.  Please email me: gregori@bdti.com

Blogger

What are the hardware requierments for the demo ?


Windows XP or 7.  A "modern" PC ( 3 years old or less ).

If you want real-time video, you will need a web cam with the appropriate driver installed.

Blogger

(although the camera isn't doing embedded processing per se, so I guess it doesn't actually count)... (re Cognex)

Platinum

l@JEFF: looks like that OpenCV demo is available only for Wndows. Is that accurate?

Iron

Do you have any comments using neural networks for vison applications?

Iron

Any familiarity with what kind(s) of processors are used in Cognex Vision system cameras??

 

I've watched them VERY reliably (and precisely) track objects moving at "blink and you'll miss it" rates...

Platinum

@artem
Thanks.  I noticed that board, but I'm wondering the chip/BOM price if I sell 1000 products with a Zynq processor.

Any insight?

 If my application has to recognize size, color and texture from tomatoes, it suitable to use the EVS from National Instruments wich implements a CPU in a FPGA ??, or can i use a lower cost processor?

Much will depend on rates-- how quickly are things moving, how quickly do you need the result, how many tomatoes are in one frame.  Depending on these and other parameters, a CPU may be adequate (perhaps ith GPU assistance), or you might need more oomph.

Blogger

what are the hardware requierments for the demo ?

Iron

@dhaneshm I've been playing with Zynq for the last 2 months, and will be happy to share my experence. Send me an email to tema8@stanford.com if you have questiions

 

Iron

@zogoto3000: the issue with firefox and audio IS the latest flash. Downgrading flash a release or 2 (to 11.3.300.27x) resolved the audio issues for me. But now IE has no flash since process starts with uninstalling flash.

Iron

Jeff Bier,  If my application has to recognize size, color and texture from tomatoes, it suitable to use the EVS from National Instruments wich implements a CPU in a FPGA ??, or can i use a lower cost processor?

 

Alex,  Size and color would not be a problem for a SOC (ARM).  I am not sure what you mean by texture.

Blogger

Zynq boards start at 300$, look for Zed board

 

Iron

 

ONE temptation with mobile processors is the possibility whether you can do any meshed processor arrays, any network-based offload...

Yes, this has potential.  Also, it's interesting to think about what can be done by combining image data from  multiple mobile devices.   Check out this amazing project, for example:  http://grail.cs.washington.edu/rome/ 

 

 

Blogger

@artem...I had seen the board..(ESC desk XILINX)  with ARM-9 Cortex processor....I was lookin out for voice processing.. it is one of the really cool stuff..I hav'nt dont much experimentation on it.. want to try it out..

Iron

@Jeff

Agreed, the ease of use is a big question. Right now I'm evaluating Zynq with the goal of building a next generation camra for computational photography and computer vision. It'll be the next version of Franken camera, if you are familiar with it: http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/fcam/ 

Iron

Does anyone know prices for Zynq?  I asked (I think Avnet) and the prices were $100 to $1000, which seemed unreasonably high.

 

Jeff Bier,  If my application has to recognize size, color and texture from tomatoes, it suitable to use the EVS from National Instruments wich implements a CPU in a FPGA ??, or can i use a lower cost processor?

Also I had no problem using Firefox on my Mac or Windows 7 computer. It may just be firefox does not have the latest adobe flash.

Iron

@jeff: amongst the four processor choices you presented, what is the most costly efficient way to start programming embedded vision applications?

That depends on what you mean by cost-efficient.  Are you talking about the cost of stuff you have to buy to get started?  The effort required to do the development?  Or the cost of producing your product using that processor?

Blogger

Thanks for the presentations!  They have been very informative and useful.  The ARM +FPGA like Zynq sound very interesting for vision applications

Also see Xilinx's dedicated area of the Embedded Vision Alliance website:

http://www.embedded-vision.com/platinum-members/xilinx/overview

Thank You! Great lecture.

Iron

Xilinx has published a large amount of information on Zynq here:

http://www.embedded-vision.com/industry-analysis/Video%2BInterviews%2BDemos

Thanks Jeff, good session

Iron

@Eric - corporate policies cause installing sw like this problematic. Is it easy to uninstall after class?

It's all in one directory.  You could just delete the directory.

Blogger

Your slide talks about implementing CPU in FPGA, but there is a new class of FPGA with embeded ARM A-9 core which in my mind is one of the best options for embeded vision. ZYNQ from Xilinx and HPS from Altera. Have you looked at those chips?

I'm glad you asked!  I wanted to mention Zynq but ran out of time.  I thihk the combination of the high-performance CPU subsystem integrated with the FPGA on one chip is very promising for many embedded vision applications.  The key challenge will be making it easy to use.
 
Blogger

The download looks like an Ubuntu package... should I find a hardware platform that I can dedicate to this package?

 

The download is actually a Windows executable.

Introduction To Computer Vision Using OpenCV (Software Demo)

November 25, 2011

 

Blogger

Recorded audio is available now...

Iron

@fwjava, wondering if we might share some interests...

Platinum

nothing yet with vision apps

Iron

@Jeff   That's better news having them on-demand makes it even more easier to listen.

Iron

Your slide talks about implementing CPU in FPGA, but there is a new class of FPGA with embeded ARM A-9 core which in my mind is one of the best options for embeded vision. ZYNQ from Xilinx and HPS from Altera. Have you looked at those chips?

Iron

primary embeded proc is in the PIC line

Iron

@Eric - corporate policies cause installing sw like this problematic. Is it easy to uninstall after class?

Great audio today on then IPhone using the Photon browser.  Thanks to Ann and Eric for tody's session.

Iron

Thank you!  Very helpful.

Platinum

We plan to videorecord the Embedded Vision Summit presentations and publish them afterward on the Embedded Vision Alliance website

Thanks for great presentation.

Iron

Any of the Boston events going to be webcast ?   Very interested in the material but I'm not able to travel to Boston.

Sorry, no webcast from the Boston event, but many of the presentations will be available as videos on the Embedded Vision Alliance web site after the event.

Blogger

Thanks for the interesting lecture, Jeff..

Iron

Thanks Jeff.. that was informative..

Iron

Are there plans to release the Executable Demo Package for another platform (e.g., Linux)?

We actually have the examples for Linux, but they are in a VMware image.

If you are interested in the Linux examples, please email me: gregori@bdti.com

 

Blogger

@Ann: I note that live audio works with IE8, still does not work with Firefox.  Any progress on that?

Iron

Thanks for the great presentation

Any of the Boston events going to be webcast ?   Very interested in the material but I'm not able to travel to Boston.

Iron

Thank you Jeff for the information.

Iron

Thank you for today's presentation

Iron

The download looks like an Ubuntu package... should I find a hardware platform that I can dedicate to this package?

Iron

Thkx Jeff, very good overview.

Iron

Please download the tool before the class.

You can download the Windows installer here: http://www.embedded-vision.com/what-embedded-vision/embedded-vision-academy/type/downloads

 

Introduction To Computer Vision Using OpenCV (Software Demo)

November 25, 2011

The BDTI OpenCV Executable Demo Package is an easy-to-use tool which allows anyone with a Windows computer and a web camera to experiment with some of the algorithms in OpenCV v2.3. After downloading the installer zip file, double-click on the zip file to uncompress its contents, then double-click on the setup.exe file.

Blogger

Jeff and Eric, you guys are going to be busy next week, eh?

Platinum

Are there plans to release the Executable Demo Package for another platform (e.g., Linux)?

Trying to remember how large that 149M zipped package explodes out to when unpacked??

Platinum

A reminder, if you've got additional questions for Jeff, he will answer them here in the second part of the show, starting in just a few minutes. 

Blogger

I've been looking at Android OpenCV but nothing really done yet.

Platinum

FPGAs let you do "generic" modular tools; all the required I/O, memory, multi-purpose re external sensors, etc -- and "roll your own" internals specific to YOUR application requirements.

 

I missed if you mentioned "cost"...

Platinum

@jeff: amongst the four processor choices you presented, what is the most costly efficient way to start programming embedded vision applications?

 

Has anyone tried the NVIDIA Android OpenCV installation tool?

 

http://www.nvidia.com/content/devzone/tegra-android-developer-pack.html

 

Blogger

"html" link at bottom of chat window lets me click your posted URLs -- VERY cool.

Platinum

As a reminder, you can access archives of each day's lecture on this page:

http://www.designnews.com/lecture-calend

Blogger

ONE temptation with mobile processors is the possibility whether you can do any meshed processor arrays, any network-based offload...

Platinum

wow - my fingers really aren't working well today :)

@drw36  Cuda is an option when building the OpenCV library for use.  One of my biggest pains when I was building my OpenCV library.

Iron

AMD has a page as well with driver for OpenCL:

http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/Pages/vision-engine.aspx

 

Iron

@flared0ne - jsut saw some poeople join late.

"now on slide 14"

mobile devices generally have TIGHT restrictions on useage, usually don't have much excess space available -- keeping people from stomping on available memory, etc, can be a problem... App dev space IS pretty interesting -- check out "String", among others re AR video overlays...

Platinum

NVIDIA has a whole webpage dedicated to computer vision:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/imaging_comp_vision.html

 

 

Blogger

@LevitonDave: mindreader -- slide #s slip past easily.

 

"Now on slide 13"

Platinum

A very popular GPU programming language is OpenCL.

Also,  NVIDIA's CUDA is very popular in the computer vision space.

Blogger

that "hi all" is re-posting again,   ???

Iron

Could NVIDIAs CUDA be applicable to this domain?

Iron

@Ann: I note that live audio works with IE8, still does not work with Firefox.  Any progress on that?

Iron

real time video stream

Iron

You can find an example of an ASP on the Primesesnse website.

http://www.primesense.com/#4

Blogger

Attending the lectures live after a long break. Good to be back!! 

Iron

GPUs have been being used as incremental "CPU time" for awhile now.

For parallel programming, google "Halide" for some GOOD info re portability, etc.

Platinum

@Ann - biggest headache was dealing with real time video stream... it's been quite a while ago - by now these problems are long gone (more powerful h/w, etc...)

Iron

Hello all, sorry to be late

Iron

@Ann: tend to use CPUs, DSPs, and FPGAs. No embedded vision. Have done video conversion. Biggest headache was diagnosing Firewire anomalies.

Iron

Suggestion for @Ann -- I'm finding it would be useful (simplify what I'm doing in the background) if the PDF could include some active links (opening into a new tab/page) with samples of an ASSP for example, or a GPGPU, etc -- hardware references, since I'm online and slightly info-starved while I'm listening to voice (which is great, just slower than I can read)... Too bad that URLs embedded here aren't clickable (unless people use the "html" link under the chat window?)...

No specific "typically use"; yes, have implemented; memory useage, accessing the program data-space...

Platinum

Got audio in Chrome (still no audio in Firefox)

Iron

People have had buffering issue with Firefox.

 

Or try refreshing.

Blogger

for audio, close your browser and login again

Iron

More information on the Primesense part Jeff is talking about:

http://www.primesense.com/

 

Blogger

but MUCH better that yesterday - no annoying "laptop radio" crap...

Iron

A few minutes late today and there is no audio... just "buffering" (same as on Monday)

Iron

For those of you just joining us, today's lecture-related questions are:

- What types of embedded processors do you typically use? CPUs?  DSPs? GPUs? FPGAs?

- Have you implemented vision or video functions on embedded processors?

- If so, what was your biggest headache?

Blogger

Browser refresh cleared up the buffering for me.

Iron

@Ann Sr Embbedded Design Engr

CAMshift video tracking, openCV, OpenGL.

Iron

Jeff what is your opinion about the performance of an EVS of National Instruments? 

audio is working, but volume is rather low at max setting on both Mac and PC

Iron

Interested in object tracking with distance-to-object correlation

 

Iron

I'm in firefox and working great

Iron

Firefox 15.01 OK -- with Flash 11.3.300.xxx

Iron

Vision application: starting with a data stream of not-exactly-image-data and generating connected-surfaces, looking to recognize object position-and-orientation info within the field-of-view of a sensor.

Platinum

I got the slides but still buffering

 

BUFFERING ON FIREFOX ALSO???

Looking at Automated Vehicle -- guidance imaging

Iron

@Ann  Currently working on Vision Tracking

Iron

 A lot of people having problems with Firefox

Blogger

Does Firefox ever stop buffering?

Iron

vehicle type identification.

Platinum

@Ann  Software Engineer 

Iron

job title is Sustaining Engineering Project Leader, working on Guided Wave RADAR for mobile tank ( tanker truck) level gauging.

Iron

Development Manager, Indutry -- COnsulting -- Industrial Data Collection & Mining Industry --consulting

Iron

For those of you just joining us, what kinds of vision applications are you thinking about working on?

Blogger

FPGAs, uCs, DSPs - no GPUs yet.

Yes.

Synchronism, getting enough cycles with hi-res sensors, interfacing.

 

Iron

Firefox - still buffering, Chrome - works fine.

 

Iron

For those of you just joining us, please let us know your job title and the industry you're working in.

Blogger

Right click on Radio Bar above to see your Flash Version

Iron

If buffering only probably need to downgrade Adobe Flash to 11.3.300.xxx

Iron

Hey, all -- finally caught up to "present time" on the chat window. Audio is working (great!) and PDF slide deck downloaded. Listening to "refresher/update"...

Platinum

biggest headache was getting OpenCV compiled with all the options that I needed

 


The tool we are going to talk about tomorrow helps you get started with OpenCV in a matter of minutes.

Blogger

@Ann Microtel should have been MicroChip

Iron

Repeating my earlier comments:

Mac users: yesterdays' looping issues aside, I (Mac OS 10.7 Lion) more generally was unable to hear either yesterday or Monday's lectures via either up-to-date Safari or Firefox via the up-to-date Flash plugin. However, Google Chrome worked (and today is once again working) fine for me.

I also observed from the comments that Windows folks running Firefox were also having problems. I'd suggest either IE or Chrome in this case; either seemed to work for others.

no buffering here,; great audio

Iron

audio good today thanks 

 

I  had audio before I logged In, but now just Buffering - Firefox 12

Microchip, Atmel and TI MCUs. A bit of FPGAs (Altera and Xilinx).

No embedded vision applications, only on the PC level.

Iron

@Ann   Amtel & Microtel MCUs ;  currently using OpenCV ; biggest headache was getting OpenCV compiled with all the options that I needed

Iron

I've used CPU,MCU,and FPGA and have done/doing projects with vision included.  Getting noise out of the video display of visual data can be a problem.

Iron

No endless looping today (yesterday was a complete bust!), but I'm back to the insufferable buffering...

 

Iron

Using TI -- Stellaris M3 CORTEX, C2000, MSP430 with C5500 DSP add on.

Iron

If you're having audio issues, please note that some companies block live audio streams. If you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. The show will be archived and available on this page.

Blogger

Audio stream is working for me.  If you are having trouble, please see the suggestions in the chat session below regarding choice of browser.

Blogger

Now just buffering with no audio...frustrating...at least no repeated intro

Refresh worked for me. Had silence.

Iron

Working after refresh

 

Iron

Audio is working for me.

Iron

First day I have got in!  Audio sounds great.

Iron

we use DSP and MCU

biggest headache is late changes to h/w, f/w or creeping featuures.

Iron

I have not done any embedded work in years...

Iron

Not looping here.

Embedded processors MCUs

No haven't done embedded vision applications.

No current projects Just gathering background knowledge

Platinum

What types of embedded processors do you typically use?  CPUs?  DSPs? GPUs? FPGAs?

Have you implemented vision or video functions on embedded processors?

If so, what was your biggest headache?

Blogger

Audio is working on Chrome + Mac OSx

Blogger

We have a major repeat/delay going on

Iron

I reloaded, no more loop. 

Iron

intro OK here, no looping

Iron

Still don't have the loop fixed

Iron

For the Thursday and Friday class.

 

Please goto: Embedded-Vision Downloads

Blogger

Repeating intro again...like yesterday

Hello from Atlanta

 

Iron

good afternoon everyone

Iron

Hello from South Africa

Iron

Hi from Portlandia (Portland, OR)

Hello from Placentia, Ca

Iron
Hello from Mesquite NM
Iron

Hello from Arizona.

Platinum

my experience with dropped chats is when a flood of responses after a question to all listeners.

problems with the cloud over the past few days?

 

I've seen the problem even when things are quiet, like earlier this morning.  I've reported it to the appropriate person.

Blogger

hello from not so sunny Edmonton, AB. Weather report this morning said temp was -1C with the wind chill.

Iron

my experience with dropped chats is when a flood of responses after a question to all listeners.

problems with the cloud over the past few days?

Iron

I have had a lot of problems posting on chat.  only about 1 of 6 of my posts are actually getting through.  I am using Chrome on OSX.

I have had to write the last few posts in HTML directly.

 

Blogger

There is a lot you can do with micrcontrollers and computer vision.  The key is getting the data into the micrcontroller.

In robotics, I work with the TI MSP430G2553 and the Parallax line sensor ( http://www.parallax.com/StoreSearchResults/tabid/768/List/0/SortField/4/ProductID/566/Default.aspx?txtSearch=line+camera )

The parallax line sensor id a 1D camera that is easily interfaced to any MCU with an A/D converter.

I have also looked into the Maxim NTSC to digital converter for MCU apps.  This chip makes it easy to interface a camera to a MCU. http://www.maximintegrated.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/6193

Blogger

Looking forward to learning how low you can go in obtaining vision information.Wondering if anything is within reach of microcontrollers, or if it needs a multi-chip solution.

 
It is definitely possible to do some simple vision processing on a microcontroller.  It all depends on your data rate (resolution x frame rate) and the complexity of your algoriths.  If you just wanted to do face detection at close range, for example, and could tolerate latency of perhaps one second, that would likely be doable on an MCU. Most vision functions will require more processing power, however.  Also, interfeacing image sensors to MCUs can be a challenge.
Blogger

I also observed from the comments that Windows folks running Firefox were also having problems. I'd suggest either IE or Chrome in this case; either seemed to work for others.

Mac users: yesterdays' looping issues aside, I (Mac OS 10.7 Lion) more generally was unable to hear either yesterday or Monday's lectures via either up-to-date Safari or Firefox via the up-to-date Flash plugin. However, Google Chrome worked fine for me.

@Eric, thanks for the TOF link, will read it later when I can do it justice.

Iron

For more information on Time-of-Flight camera's check out: http://www.isprs.org/proceedings/XXXVIII/part5/papers/82.pdf

 

Also, Canesta (purchased by Microsoft) makes the counter/pixel TOF camera.

Blogger

Looking forward to learning how low you can go in obtaining vision information.Wondering if anything is within reach of microcontrollers, or if it needs a multi-chip solution.

Platinum

@Eric, thanks for the answer. I didn't realize counting directly at GHZ scale was possible for each pixel.

Iron

Brian Dipert has posted a great article that expands on the sensor topic I talked about yesterday.  You can find the article here:

http://www.embedded-vision.com/platinum-members/bdti/embedded-vision-training/documents/pages/image-sensors-evolve-meet-emerging-em

Blogger

Good morning, everyone.

I apologize again for the problem with the streaming audio during yesterday's class.  I hope that by now, everyone has had a chance to listen to the archived stream.  However, if you haven't had a chance to do so, it's OK to wait until after today's class -- yesterday's session and today's are independent.

Blogger

I'm thinking about "time of flight" for vision systems and seems it should use a reference pulse of light to measure the time-of-flight.

Do these systems use an expanded time sampling system to stretch 1ft/ns (2ft/ns RADAR time) to something much more measurable?

 

There are two methods used to measure TOF.  The first method measure the TOF directly using counters on each pixel clocked in the Ghz range.  The second method modulates the pulse using RF frequencies and measure TOF by the phase difference between the outgoing and incoming light pulse.

Blogger

I'm thinking about "time of flight" for vision systems and seems it should use a reference pulse of light to measure the time-of-flight.

Do these systems use an expanded time sampling system to stretch 1ft/ns (2ft/ns RADAR time) to something much more measurable?

Blogger

Please join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY 

Blogger

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser. 

Blogger

Be sure to click 'Today's Slide Deck' under Special Educational Materials above right to download the PowerPoint for today's session. 

Blogger

Question - looks like I'm first in line for Q&A for the "lost session" on Tuesday.

I'm thinking about "time of flight" for vision systems and seems it should use a reference pulse of light to measure the "time-of-flight".

Do these systems use an expanded time sampling system to stretch 1ft/ns (2ft/ns RADAR time) to something much more measurable?

Iron


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