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VM
User Rank
Iron
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
VM   4/10/2014 9:37:17 AM
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I sure wouldn't want to be anywhere close to a car fire if there was any significant amount of flamable metal in it's ocnstruction.

 

Villy

Lightfellows
User Rank
Iron
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Lightfellows   2/4/2014 4:46:26 AM
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I read with interest the threads on CF –I am involved with many companies worldwide regards CF composites and what I am seeing is new CF material formats combined with new and modified process and polymers that are opening up a significant potential for auto applications. Aluminium's, steels, titanium and magnesium will never compete with a material format that can be moulded with variable thicknesses – strategic laminate direction and can be combined with many other materials. You will see a greater use of glass CF hybrids in the future. Regarding recycling – with the greater acceptance of TP polymers and their increase performance the recycling issue goes away!! so yes the use of CF is inevitable !!

Martin O'Connor  - Zoltek Automotive

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Ann R. Thryft   10/8/2013 12:35:28 PM
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Not at all, Rob. Many composite developers we've reported on are working on both types. They each can have their place in a given vehicle.

Rob Spiegel
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Blogger
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Rob Spiegel   10/8/2013 11:49:50 AM
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Ann, does that mean that glass fiber composites are likely to get sidelined? Or, are there still applications for which glass fiber composites are the superior solution?

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Ann R. Thryft   10/8/2013 11:41:32 AM
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The strength to weight ratio of carbon fiber composites is higher than that of glass fiber composites. And the greater stiffness is very important in cars and planes.



Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Rob Spiegel   10/12/2012 11:13:37 AM
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Archie, I think the fascination with carbon fibers is the environmental factor. However, the steel folks argue that the front end of the carbon fiber process eats up considerable energy -- plus, they argue that steel is very easy to recycle.

fdonmedway
User Rank
Iron
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
fdonmedway   10/11/2012 6:26:42 PM
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Why the fascination of carbon fibres. The same techniques can be used with glass fibres which are cheaper. This can create as light structures which are, admittedly, less stiff but no less strong. The main importance is correct fibre orientation and high fibre density, i.e. squeezing out the resin. The same techniques can be applied to glass as carbon.

The high fibre density is cheaper in materials, lighter and less brittle.

Rapid curing is generally a result of using an appropriate resin - plus the use of heat. The advantage of applying heat is that a slower mix can be used but rapid curing applied once the shell or component is fully laid up. The safest method would be to use hot water. Possibly a water jacket could be applied using the water to squeeze the shells to get high compaction and then the cold water could be run out and hot water inserted to accelerate the cure.

Archie

Ann R. Thryft
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Ann R. Thryft   9/24/2012 12:42:08 PM
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Thanks, Dave, for that input. All my sources have said magnesium is extremely expensive, much too expensive for high-volume automotive manufacturing. Any idea how that's being addressed?

Dave Palmer
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Dave Palmer   9/21/2012 6:47:05 PM
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@Ann: Titanium is not expected to play a big role in automotive lightweighting, but magnesium is.  The Department of Energy's Vehicle Technologies Program forecasts that magnesium will make up 12% of a vehicle's weight by 2035 (compared to <1% today).  They have been doing a lot of work on magnesium casting techniques.  This would make a good topic for a future article.

Scott Orlosky
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Carbon composites probably inevitable
Scott Orlosky   9/16/2012 2:22:07 PM
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This seems like an interesting element in the "lightweighting" game.  As ratkinsonjr points out, sometimes a process development is needed before materials become cost effective.  Who knows, perhaps converting automatic knitting machines to make cloth "shapes" for the automotive industry is the sort of cross-pollination of technologies that could make carbon fiber cost effective as a solution. Glad to see a consortium working on this.  Thanks for the story.

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