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mecram1
User Rank
Iron
Re: Whats the big deal?
mecram1   9/12/2012 2:06:29 PM
NO RATINGS
This is getting off point, but, The EPA sticker and the CAFE standards are quite different.

If you are intersted I found this Edmunds article about the confusing difference.

http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/05/when-cafe-meets-epa-a-tale-of-two-fuel-economy-standards.html

kingg
User Rank
Silver
Re: Rest of the world gettng 80 mpg
kingg   9/12/2012 2:05:34 PM
NO RATINGS
I wasn't just talking about airbags.  U.S. cars have many other safety devices vs Nanos, not including the new electric nannies, including better bumpers, side beams in doors, collapsing steering columns, safety glass, and more than one windshield wiper.  624cc rear mounted 2 cylinder engine, 3 lug nuts per wheel, zero to 37mph in 8 seconds will make other drivers happy.  Top speed is 65, which is not safe on most U.S. 60mph freeways.  Get in an accident in a Nano and you will get hurt.  Just like all the other microcars.  This is less sophisticated than a 1960's VW Beetle.  We've all moved forward.......... And if you have a 1967 Mercedes you won't meet the 54mpg no matter whether it's gas or diesel.  Ford of England website says the Focus gets between 44.1 and 67.3 combined using either the 1.0 gas or 1.6 turbodiesel.  Probably using Imperial gallons.  Not quite the easy 80mpg.  For the VW Polo.  Highest I could find from tests.  Best 51.5, avg 49.6 from a 3 cylinder diesel.  We all think europe is so much better.  Higher gas prices subsidize mass transit, which I'm for, by the way.  Driving in Switzerland or Austria is extremely restricted, and lower speed limits than U.S. which would also help explain higher mpg.  Load down a small car with a few people and cargo, and watch the mpg plummet. 

Watashi
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Rest of the world gettng 80 mpg
Watashi   9/12/2012 1:37:05 PM
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You have quite a list there.  It's like a "Who's Who" of cars the US consumer outright rejected.

Nobody enjoys getting bad mileage, but the majority of us deal with it to get the best performance we can afford.

Rigby5
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Rest of the world gettng 80 mpg
Rigby5   9/12/2012 1:36:41 PM
NO RATINGS
Phillman5,

Think about pollution regulations for a second?  How could it be better to get low mpg in order to meet pollution requirements?  Obviously pollution is not being fairly measured.  It is insane to measure parts per million, when in reality a car puts out half the amount of pollution total.  If they changes the DEQ measurements to capture a volume of exhaust over a period of time and measure the total, then high mpg would easily negate things like heavy air pumps that don't really help at all.

Rigby5
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Rest of the world gettng 80 mpg
Rigby5   9/12/2012 1:32:10 PM
NO RATINGS
England has a Ford Focus and Germany has the VW Polo that get over 80 mpg, at higher than highway speeds, safely and reliably.  There are dozens of others as well.

Safety equipment for the Tata Nano to be brought to the US, is actually just padding, and does not weigh much of anything, nor does it change mileage.

It is nice to pretend the US has safer cars, but I will take a 1967 Mercedes over a modern US car in an accident, any day.  Putting an explosive airbag in your face makes a car more dangerous in an accident, not safer.

phillman5
User Rank
Iron
Re: Rest of the world gettng 80 mpg
phillman5   9/12/2012 1:31:53 PM
NO RATINGS
>Rest of the world gettng 80 mpg 
>Rigby5   9/12/2012 12:56:33 PM
 
>I was buying 4 cylinder cars in the 1960s that got 30-40 mpg, such as VW, Fiat, Renault, >Mercedes, Corvair, Pontiac Tempest, Nash Metropolitan, etc.

>Asian and European cars easily get 80 mpg, mostly with turbo charged diesels.

>Lets not pretend that 54 mpg is hard.

>We all know it isn't.
 
I think back in the 60's, and in the rest of the world, there were/are other a) safety requirements, and b) emmission standards, that effect mpg.  So if we are to compare US mpg with these we need to compare other constraints put on american cars. ARe we going to relax these to get to 54 mpg?   I have a '89 Dodge Colt Stationwagon with a 1.5l engine that get 30+ mpg in town, and its not a dog, it has some pep, but I think its very light.  (I also note this engine is smaller than what is in the GM Volt!


Rigby5
User Rank
Platinum
Re: General Comments
Rigby5   9/12/2012 1:25:29 PM
Ockham,

Totally false.  I HAVE owned a diesel Rabbit, and it was one of the safest and most comfortable cars on the road.  It also looked nice, has great carrying capability, and was easy to park.  It was weak, but sufficient.  And with turbo charging, diesels are much better than gasoline cars for power, mileage, ease of maintenance, and longevity.

Watashi
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Diesel and .....Bikes
Watashi   9/12/2012 1:23:20 PM
NO RATINGS
Good thinking for cars, but a 4.5L couldn't give the same performance when towing and hauling that the bigger engine does.  Also, truck buyers are much more performance driven than the average car buyer.

Any advancements for trucks will likely have to come from optimizing the engine.  Hybrid technology just doesn't add that much in the current state of the art.

jhmumford
User Rank
Gold
Re: Lofty, but worthy goal
jhmumford   9/12/2012 1:17:17 PM
NO RATINGS
Analog John:

I have to agree with you on this one. Every time the auto industry has been required to comply with a regulation, they whine that it's too expensive, nobody will want to buy the cars, the auto industry will be driven out of existence, cars will actually be LESS safe (or efficient or whatever). Safety glass, seat belts, pollution controls, shoulder belts, air bags, CAFE standards, crash test standards, pedestrian safety standards and many others; all have been decried as the death of the auto industry, the end of "affordable" or "desirable" cars, and every one of these goals has been achieved ahead of schedule at much lower cost that originally stated, with much less disruption to the industry, and without destroying sales of cars.  And all of these standards have improved safety, fuel economy and driveability.

We've got to at least try to get there, even if we don't quite make it.  Some bright boy (or girl) will figure this out and make a fortune.

kingg
User Rank
Silver
Re: Rest of the world gettng 80 mpg
kingg   9/12/2012 1:14:51 PM
NO RATINGS
Beside the Nano, which cars can get easily 80mpg on a gallon of gas or diesel?  Are you talking Imperial gallons?  At what speeds, and is the vehicle actually "usable" at U.S. speeds?  I have a 250 pound Vespa that gets 85 mpg.  Top speed is 50mph.  Only usable on non-freeways. And the Nano would not sell in this country because it doesn't have the relevent safety equipment for dealing with American vs Indian traffic.  That would add weight, the enemy of efficiency.

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