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User Rank
Gee thanks....
Jim_E   8/29/2012 10:11:32 AM
I'm an American and I do not want to purchase a small, underpowered, less safe vehicle.

Sure, I'd like my vehicles to get better mileage, but I think that it should be market driven, instead of government imposed.  I too hate seeing the amount of debt incurred for enviro-friendly projects which simply aren't effective.  For the money, we should be investing in modern nuclear power instead of obtrusive windmills and partially productive solar power.

As another poster indicated, a big increase in mileage would be a huge market advantage for a car builder.

I lived through the EPA/CAFE influenced, crappy era of mid-1970s through mid-1980s American cars, and don't want to experience that again.  :)

Rockin Dog
User Rank
Rockin Dog   8/29/2012 10:05:42 AM
Fred Flintstone had it all figured out. Cut two holes in front and under the driver, stick your feet out and run.

Just saved a trillion bucks!

R. D.

User Rank
Re: Still not good enough
Davek3gau   8/29/2012 10:02:33 AM
I think it's funny when today's auto makers tout their 30 -32 MPG on TV adds.  Back in 1999 we bought a Saturn SL-2, it had the big 4 cyclinder engine and a 5 speed manual transmission.  We had the car until we practically ran the wheels off of it. (Over 200 K miles) It consistantly got over 30 MPG and we saw some times when it got as high as 36-7 MPG and we weren't loligaging around.  I usually drive at speed limit +.  Of course, GM decided to kill off the Saturn line!! 

We did notice one problem though, as we got older it got harder and harder to get in and out of it.  It the rush to make smaller more fuel efficent vehicles, I hope the manufacturers as they push toward the 54.5 MPG hurtle remember people have to be able to get into and out of them and sit comfortably.  Not everybody only drives 10 -15 miles one way to work or visit relatives, etc.

As for EVs, nice idea but a bit of a NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) technology as far as I am concerned.  The EV owners buy one and feel  "oh so good" 'cause they are not poluting THEIR air.  The reality is, they have just moved THEIR polution to the backyard of the nearest electric power source, be it coal or oil fired generators, atomic or wind farms, etc.  All of them have some negative impact on the environment and eco system somewhere!!  You pays your money and you takes your choice!!

Whether 54.5 MPG is achieveable remains to be seen.  What compromises are you willing to make??


Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Re: Big changes
Rob Spiegel   8/29/2012 9:46:27 AM
Do you know if this include trucks, Chuck? It's my understanding that earlier CAFE standards did not include trucks, so the car makers called minivans and SUVs trucks to exclude them from the standard.

Common sense
User Rank
This is insane
Common sense   8/29/2012 9:42:53 AM
This is kind of like the idea that we can keep borrowing 1.2 Trillion $$ every year to have money to waste on wind mills, it is stupid, it is unrealistic, it is not sustainable.  The market has a wonderful way of working out what makes sense.  300 million little computers working away instead of one that is still operating on DOS.  This is nothing but another environmentalist wet dream.  While we are at it why stop at 55 mpg, just make it 300 mpg and we can save that much more oil.  The cars will have to have pedals on them and only carry one person so they couldn't be that expensive, could they?  We are living in an insane asylum, the crazies don't know they are crazy.

Ollie Prophet
User Rank
Re: Still not good enough
Ollie Prophet   8/29/2012 9:41:24 AM
You can call a healthy, even heated debate over the wisdom of federal policy that severly impacts every Americans lifestyle and well-being "trolling", but it still needs to be discussed.  Don't try to minimize the relevancy of this mandate by applying taglines with negative connotations.

Christian Jorde
User Rank
fuel consumtion on next generations of cars
Christian Jorde   8/29/2012 9:36:58 AM
first - a law for 2025 requesting a fuel consumption which is possible today does not force car builders to work hard.

second - who knows if a the consumption in gallons per miles is 2025 still the best dimension?  Maybe we should talk about kWh per miles.  But who knows today how many kWh a gallon of gasoline is worth.


Ollie Prophet
User Rank
Re: Still not good enough
Ollie Prophet   8/29/2012 9:36:08 AM
First off, this mileage decree was not enacted in a legal fashion.  BHO cannot sign a executive order, basically a memo. that changes federal law, it needs to be passed by congress.  This is just one more example of BHO abusing his authority via presidential fiat, and needs to be challenged by the leadership in Congress, perhaps via impeachment proceedings.  Time for Boehner to grow a spine. 

Secondly, the only way to meet these standards will be by making vehicles that are 1) unsafe, through size reduction and material lightening and 2) undesirable due to range restrictions (see Volt), size limitations and lack of performance. 

If high mileage is such a laudable goal, let the market drive the movement toward higher MPG vehicles, not federal mandate.   Does anyone in this country still understand the notion of Liberty, or are you all so anxious to turn over your decision making to the federal government? 

User Rank
Re: Still not good enough
Bunter   8/29/2012 9:29:31 AM
MPG legislation aside I think you need to look closer at some of the things you comment on politically.

Look at Romney's actual tax plan.  It proposes tax cuts for everybody.

Obama's policies are raising taxes (see the ACA aka Obamacare) on everybody. His energy policies raises the cost of energy which hits the poor and middle class harder than the rich (gasp, say it isn't so).  Numerous buisnessmen (large and small) have noted that the extra costs of this administrations policies & regulations are preventing them from investing and hiring-the risks are currently unacceptable.  BLeating about greed being the problem only demonstrates your economic ignorance.

This is the worst economic recovery since the Great Depression.  It is also the first one since that debacle that saw the government try significant Keynsian style intervention in the recovery (stimulus, yes I agree Bush assisted in that).

The massive overspending also has contributed to disaterous recovery.

Yes we can meet these standards-but it will not be a snap.  Any company that can achieve a big jump in mpg quickly would do it in a heartbeat even at enourmas cost, what a competitive advantage it would be.




User Rank
Re: Still not good enough
loadster   8/29/2012 9:28:41 AM
I agree with akwaman; I think this subject is spoon-feeding the trolls like baby birds. And I also concur that the 4 year goal is a lot more interesting than 13 years away. I still think need and efficiency should drive the product more than federal mandate. No, momma bird, I am full now. Brrrp.

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