HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Comments
View Comments: Newest First|Oldest First|Threaded View
<<  <  Page 8/23  >  >>
akwaman
User Rank
Gold
Re: The real truth, without the statistical outliers. The bottom line by an independant test.
akwaman   8/29/2012 1:12:26 PM
NO RATINGS
Totally_Lost:  Right back at ya!  If it wasn't for the useless drool that you write, I probably would never have written a thing.  Your opinions are offensive to common sense and science.  Your lack of critical thinking, and use only of evidence that supports your idea, is contrary to scientific principals.  To counter your childish tactics... it takes one to know one!

Totally_Lost
User Rank
Silver
Re: The real truth, without the statistical outliers. The bottom line by an independant test.
Totally_Lost   8/29/2012 12:37:09 PM
NO RATINGS
@akwaman

 

I do not dispute the independent testing results, they probably are quite accurate for the limited scope of the testing that was done, that is quite favorable for the Prius.

And the "extreme case" is normal driving conditions for millions of drivers, and failing to include these cases, is simply choosing to purposefully distort the results.

Again, your statement "no matter what the driving conditions" is just outright and completely FALSE.

Grow up, stop the insults.

The true engineering facts remain that high torque, low speed, stop and go operation, especially on hills, is very poor for serial hybrids like the Prius. Choosing test results that ignore that exceptionally poor case for the Prius, and continually citing best case numbers which are dominated by smooth level continuous operation is less than truthful.

I've spent thousands of hours driving rush hour traffic on both the east and west coasts, in exactly these conditions. Yes they are worst case. And yes, they affect millions every day.

I'm happy for you, that you do not have to do that. Millions of others do ... EVERY DAY.

And by the way ... you truly are a rude, disrespectful, ignorant, bigoted, pompus, orifice of waste.

akwaman
User Rank
Gold
Re: The real truth, without the statistical outliers. The bottom line by an independant test.
akwaman   8/29/2012 12:10:14 PM
Totally_Lost, you are still totally lost.  I didn't make that statement you begin with, it comes from an independent testing source.  Please read more carefully, it is probably why you are so confused about what is actually going on.  You take an extreme case, and try to apply it to daily life, not the way a scientist or engineer approaches a problem.  Let's get real and realize that you are not the only person in the world.  I live in Florida, where that 'mountain' issue will NEVER be an issue.  Most people in the country don't commute up and down a mountain.  If you do, you may need something different, and there will always be a vehicle you can buy to take you up that mountain.  Your arguments are just smoke and mirrors, and I see through both. 

Totally_Lost
User Rank
Silver
Re: The real truth, without the statistical outliers. The bottom line by an independant test.
Totally_Lost   8/29/2012 11:28:57 AM
@akwaman


LOL and ROTFL big time ... and you continue to be brain washed with fantsy as you make the statement "It appears clear, no matter what the driving conditions, that the Toyota Prius will return around 44 mpg—if driven with a sane right foot. That's impressive, and that means the Prius remains the most fuel-efficient car on the market. The Jetta falls short in pure city driving, but it does meet (and barely beats) the Prius when it comes to highway fuel economy in our testing."

The "no matter what the driving conditions" is just outright and completely FALSE. At slow speeds stop and go speeds, especially those on a climbing grade, the Prius efficency is a small tiny fraction of of the ideal efficency numbers at a constant city or highway driving speed. Add to that having to produce cabin heat in stop and go metro driving at -20F on a bad winter night up into the mountains to go skiing, and it gets a LOT worse.

If you want to do the test, disconnect the fuel lines on a Prius and manual TDI Jetta, and replace with a calibrated 200ml graduated container. At the bottom of a 5-10 mile 8-14% grade where the outside temps are near or below zero, start both the Prius and Jetta, and climb the hill at 5mph, maintaining a normal comfortable cabin temp that is the same in both. Record the fuel used by both IF they make it to the top, or where the container reachs the zero mark (not where the engine stops, as the fuel in the lines and engine is different on each). On the west coast, the climb outside Sacramento headed east toward Reno will do. In Colorado west outside Denver, headed to Vail will do.

Less extreme, but just as notable, choose a significantly rolling hills stop and go commute area in or near a major city, where the speeds are typically less than 5mph,and the stops are typically every 100ft or less, where the temps outside are greater than 100F and it requires running the AC to keep cabin temps in both cars at a comforable temp.

Just for fun in both cases, make sure the Prius is a dark red/black color, and the Jetta is white, just to make the point clear that "no matter what the driving conditions" is just an outright lie.

Now since you have been exceptionally insulting, with direct personal attacks, (as have a couple others), it's time you do your homework, and get your head out of the fantsy best case, and start looking as some difficult real world conditions that a few millions drivers do every day for at least half the year.

RFL designed a significantly better electric drive for these conditions, with a significantly sharper slow speed efficency rise than the Prius electric drive .... read the test report at http://www.slideshare.net/ThomasBraegelmann/ev-motor-prius-rfl-comparison-paper-rfl-vs-prius-final-020510

Also read the government test reports that RFL cites for some additional data points that will allow one to accurately model high torque, low speed, operation of the Prius in the above worst case, everyday driving conditions that millions of people drive every day.

And BTW ... you really deserve some resounding insults in return for your ignorance and ability to ignore the facts that are different than your fantasy view of the world.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: 54.5 MPG at WHAT cost?
Charles Murray   8/28/2012 5:42:32 PM
NO RATINGS
I can remember 25.9 cents a gallon around 1969, but don't recall anything lower than that, Rob.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: 54.5 MPG at WHAT cost?
Rob Spiegel   8/28/2012 5:09:22 PM
NO RATINGS
The lowest price for a gallon I can remember in the 1960s was about 17 or 18 cents. That was in the Detroit area. And that was during the occasional price war. Not sure what that would be in 2012 dollars.

RNDDUDE
User Rank
Platinum
Re: 54.5 MPG at WHAT cost?
RNDDUDE   8/28/2012 4:58:57 PM
NO RATINGS
The link was provided for factual information purposes only. I had hoped to get figures of historical pricing in real, not adjusted, dollars, because I found the claim of $0.10/gal gas in the 60's to be counter to my recollection. I must admit though that much of my recollection of the sixties is somewhat suspect....

BTW, I consider your next-to-last post about deflation excellent.

analyst
User Rank
Iron
Re: 54.5 MPG at WHAT cost?
analyst   8/28/2012 4:24:31 PM
@rndude

So the price of gas in real dollars has been going up since approximately 1984. Is that how you read the graph you have presented us with? 

And, dare I say it, the cost of a battery pack for an EV will continue to go down, as it has already, for the forseeable future. Because as the price of the battery pack goes down so does the cost of EVs.

Certainly, it would take a brave and foolish person to imply that the price of crude, and therefore gasoline is going to be going down during the next 10 years. The Saudi's are planning for the day when their oil runs out. Kuwait is too. So are all the middle eastern countries I am aware of.

Perhaps we can start drilling for oil in outer space. That's a plan!

RNDDUDE
User Rank
Platinum
Re: 54.5 MPG at WHAT cost?
RNDDUDE   8/28/2012 4:14:30 PM
analyst
User Rank
Iron
Re: 54.5 MPG at WHAT cost?
analyst   8/28/2012 3:35:55 PM
@island_al

I am sorry to hear you are displeased with the American form of government.

Please review the Constitution and you will find that it was the intent from the very beginning (circa ratification of the Constitution) that the Congress lay and collect taxes, for both defense and the promotion of the general welfare. [Which means "well being", since someone else asked.]

Spending for the promotion of the General Welfare would seem to require planning. Centralized planning.

You will also see that it was the intent from the very beginning that the Congress should regulate interstate commerce.

Once again, the regulation of interstate commerce seems to imply purpose. And more of that dreaded planning.

I wish I could direct you to some other western nation where they do not employ planning at the federal level, but there are no states like that which I am aware of.

PS. And case you are wondering, Jesus expressed no preference for or against government. Unless you count "give onto Caesar that which is Caesar's". There seems to be some confusion on this point in the mind of some conservatives.

*********************************
One more post word. Economists now recognize that inflation is an essential tool for getting out of an economic depression. The reason is that there is a much scarier beast than inflation. It is called deflation.

Deflation is where the value of your money, in terms of what it can buy, is going UP over time. And it is very, very dangerous. Dangerous because when the same amount of money -- lets assume it is in gold pieces of eight -- can buy more tomorrow than today, the incentives for those who still have money to... hold on to it.

After all, why buy one car today when you can buy two next month?

But, if everyone who still has money holds on to their money, even though they are rich, even though deinflation has made them richer than they have ever been before, the economy is dead as a doornail. Because "economy" doesn't mean having money. "Economy" means the movement of money, in exchange for goods and services.

So when people stop using the money they already have to buy stuff, there is no economy. It is dead.

And the answer to the scurge of economies, the destroyer of lives, meaning deflation in this case, is inflation. 

<<  <  Page 8/23  >  >>


Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
Thanksgiving is a time for family. A time for togetherness. A time for… tech?
The promise of the Internet of Things (IoT) is that devices, gadgets, and appliances we use every day will be able to communicate with one another. This potential is not limited to household items or smartphones, but also things we find in our yard and garden, as evidenced by a recent challenge from the element14 design community.
Researchers have developed a new flexible fabric that integrates both movement and sensors, introducing new potential for technology-embedded clothing and soft robots.
Made by Monkeys highlights products that somehow slipped by the QC cops.
If you didn't realize that PowerPoint presentations are inherently hilarious, you have to see Don McMillan take one apart. McMillan -- aka the Technically Funny Comic -- worked for 10 years as an engineer before he switched to stand-up comedy.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
11/19/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
11/6/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
10/7/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
12/11/2014 8:00 a.m. California / 11:00 a.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Dec 1 - 5, An Introduction to Embedded Software Architecture and Design
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Last Archived Class
Sponsored by Littelfuse
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service