Having ground through a lot of 8-bit applications as well as bit slice and custom microsequencer designs it is easy to appreciate the 32 processors of today

Good presentation on comparison of issues between 8 bit to 32 bit processing

Thanks Paul

Thank you Paul!

no arctan

Yes to Moore's law

Microchip PIC family

Hi from Or

:)

Have played with most of these except the Hitachi, first processor I played with was the RCA scamp, built my first digital computer based on a Motorola 6801.  Have put a lot of products in the field with 8048, 8051, 6800 and PIC based circuits.  A basic slurpie machine has a 6811, and up to 5 PICs just to give you a frozen beverage.

Thank you, Paul!

@chuck - not yet, but interested to play with it in the future...

@chuck - yes, I ahve seen similar charts before...

@host - used Z80 and 8051

Great to have access to the recorded sessions

Missed the live session due to travel...

Thanks! nice presentation

DMX-512 / 8086

Great material to show the shift from 8-Bit to 32-Bit in Today's Microcontroller worls, and the best part is with Today's process technologies the cost of a small entrey Level 32 Bit Micro is the same if not even lower than an 8 Bit Micro.

I've used many of the old 8-bit uCs.

Thank you!

I have worked with some of there processsors, primarily as a graduate teaching assistant.  I taught laboratories using the 8085, which was a new device at the time,  and also used the 6800 a little bit.  As an undergraduate I remember entering programs into  an 8080 system with toggle switches.  And don't forget the 6502!

thank you Paul,

a very late hi all,

Good review:

Catching up

I'm still uisng 8051 based MCUs.

I've needed to use complex math to convert between voltage and power.

Thank you Paul and Digikey for the lecture.. It was an awesome one!

Thanks Paul; very informative lecture

Paul seems to be clueless about all the cool things we are doing with 8 bit micros today.

Remember, we are in a cost competitive environment where our customers do not pay for anything that they do not need.

yes.

Thanks, Paul and Chuck.

Yes

I have used many of these.

Thanks for the class. So far I am learning a lot in this series of classes

thanks Paul

Thanks Paul, Digikey, and everyone.

Thanks Paul and everyone.

okay

OK - I must sign off, thank you everyone for your

interest and great questions.  See you tomorrow...

Paul.

Thanks !

About pipeline again:  Check out the ISB, DSB, DMB

arm instructions!

CORTEX-M0 I believe is a three-stage pipeline.

CORTEX-M0 permits memory access re-organization.  We'll

talk some about this tomorrow  -  The pipeline thing is a

fascinating subject.

Paul, thank you! This is a great lesson!

Thanks Paul, great intro lecture. Looking forward for more in-depth info about Cortex.

Quick question: Do you know how many levels of pipeline Cortex-M0 uses ? Is it something like 7-9 ?

OOOhhh good question: Harvard Architecture.

Interesting answer: Cortex-M0 IS Von-Newman Architecture with pipelines

Cortex-M3/M4 is Harvard Architure, I will talk about this a bit in the next

days.  I will say, it surprised me that -M0 is NOT harvard architecture.

gschmick

Slides are available at the time of the webinar.

Ok, thanks, I'll check back later for the slides.

Paul, does the ARM processor consider as Harvard architecture?

The rest of the slides should be ready later today I think.

@PAUL: Thank you!

Yes, this lecture did belabor the 8-32-bit point.

We'll talk alot more about the guts in the next

few days.

Paul

@Paul or Chuck:  I just tried to get tomorrow's slides and got an error.  Have the rest of the packages been poseted?

PAUL, looks like you haven't seen my question posted twice: 

@PAUL: In a nut shell, how would you compare the Cortex x335 A8 and the M0?

Hi - CORTEX-A8 vs CORTEX-M0

whopping difference!  For one, the

Cortex-A class is different than the -M class.

They are purposed differently.  We'll

touch on -M0, -M3, -M4 differences in the

next few days, but won't compare to the -A's.

Yeah, I like the smell of oil in the morning too.

Ohhh - Symmetric vs non-symmetric

In this case I mean in non-symmetric that

there are lots of special use, special case registers.

They are not so general purpose.  They have restrictions

on use.

Symmetric processor - in constrast allow registers to be used

with few restriction.

This is the short-typed answer.

I wonder if the idea is for hardware mftrs just to team up with a C/C+ or Java compiler outfit and bring out a toolchain and performance metrics and we just base our decision on the cost/metrics (and don't care anymore whether is is a dual-core chip, FPGA uCs chip or ultrafast 2-bit RISC micro, whatever).

Yes, I lean left....

Paul, what is the different symmetric and non-symmetric processor?

I'm looking forward to more details later!

Thanks again over all a strong first day 

I'll be back

Thank you. I am looking forward to ARM in detail

Are you covering the architecure level info of CORTEX MO processor in upcoming letcures? Curious to know on the transistor level design practice of the architecure like static core with dynamic logic core

See you tomorrow.

Yes, see you tomorrow.

So a left leaning triangle is superior to a right leaning triangle.  I think you politics is showing subliminally.

Are you going to provide a history of the ARM processor as well? As far as previous generations? Just a list or timeline to distinguish this one from others?

Thanks Paul, great lecteur very easy to understand.

Thanks, Paul and Chuck.  May have belabored the point of 8 vs 32 a bit for my taste today, but I'm looking forward to details of ARM to come.

thanks Paul and Chuck. This was a good intro to why 32bit instead of 8bit. See all tomorrow.

Hi I see two questions:

1:  What are the triangles?  The triangles were

     in my mind a way of showing the changing balance between feature size and execution time.

     Perhaps a balance itself would have been better!!!! 

2)  ARCTAN Question:  Yes, look up tables are good, Cordic function is real good too.

     But for the purist that I am, I turn to the MATH.H library and use atan();

Paul.

Easy to follow lecture... good job!

Good Intro.  I need more now.  Looking forward to the rest of the week with you.

 Thanks for showing example and addressing the latency advantage of 32 bit processing compare to 8 bit

Thank you for the lecture, Paul - very clear, concise and a great delivery! Looking forward to the following days...

Paul there was some confusion on significance of the triangles.  Please repeat.

thanks have a better understanding with the numbers followed I followed along nicely. 

great!  thanks Paul!

great intro information...  THANKS PAUL...

Thanks

Thanks Paul!

have used lookup tables in the past for microcontrollers. linear interpolation between the data points. not very accurate, but good enough at the time

thanks guys

thanks

Thanks Paul

Thanks, Paul - good to hear you again! Missed you @ Re Union!

Mark Kolenik

Paul great job I especially like the attention to move to the next slide and felt the lecture was clear and to the point 

except maybe the bluefin triangles

Look forward to tomorrow's!

Paul, what is the meaning of trainsistor size on the two triangles you showed?

thanks Paul - great introduction - thank you Chuck and DigiKey

thx, that was on target

Thanks paul, chuck. Good session

Hi everyone, can I be of help with any questions?

thanks, Paul!

Thanks for a good lecture

Paul, thank you!

"Table" is a very good idea!

Thank you.

Thanks

Thanks guys!

Thanks Paul!!

Chuck, thank you

Thanks Paul & Chuck!

Thanks Paul for lecture

thanks Paul

Thkx Paul, Chuck.

Good job, Paul.

Thanks Paul.

When doing higher math, use tables, if you have the space. 

Paul, you have presented this as a truly educational seminar! No hidden promotion of any one vendor. Thanks!

WHen use "C", I believe no big difference between 8 bit or 32 bit. But the 32 bit core will have short code and run very fast.

In the 8-bit days, there were fewer instructions, but many steps. The problem today is zillions of instruction variation, but quick responding. Hard to learn all these types.

biggest problem on 8 bit, is precision and accuracy

@Michael Anderson- Dead right !

I have only done for basic math i.e multiplication and division  for floating point etc

not this one.

No, not at this time

@jl: I think the real significance is that the C compiler will generate instruction sequences similar to what is being presented, so that two processors at identical clock speeds take hugely different times to do the exact same line of C source code, even after the compiler does every clever thing it can to optimize.

Geometrical solutions are a must in our business. Always looking to simplfy.

Have not done a lot with higher math. Used look up tables as fast work around a couple of times.

FFT routine on 8 bit micro to  harmonic analyzis

have done math on 8 bit, not pretty

Higher math yes, absolutely.

No higher math yet...

I've had to do this type of calculation for angles in an 8 bit processor.

Arctan used in position control - I'm a controls engineer

I used lookup tables for higher math answers rather than calculating.

I have done this alot with 3d graphics

we use large lookup tables to speed it up

also used alot in checksum generation and cyrpto

Yes.

Done as a taylor serries.

I have used this kind of math.

Higher math?  Just before this class.  :)

have not used higher math for embedded work yet.

Have used approximations to speed up trig fn's

Slopes and area under curves.

I used lookuptables to speed up sine on 6502

linear math transformation can do

yes math is always tough with 8-bit

I have - I've used simplified equations that approximate the actual result or lookup tables

Yes to the Higher Math Functions

I did several times. They are typical academic examles.

flotting point calculation

Of course, lots of trig

Transcendentals suck on 8-bit platforms...

very much so

Haven't done it for ages.

No

yes.  then we use C.

Yup, and the CORDIC !

Definitely

Many problems requiring higher math

If I am correct, 32 bit requires memory alignment -  writting a single byte to an odd address will crash, why? does 8bit has such issue?

it seems the presentation target is at the machine code and assembler code level - we all understand C code hides all this, but does not help when C is not avaiable on the platform

Again C code hides these steps

did not get what is transistor size is doing up there! anyhow . . .

You mean a blue fin dont you

No it's a Blackfin

@phildani7 The trangles are showing the relationships of transistor density vs. data width vs. instruction size.  It's a bit inscruitable to just look at it without his description.

I think the first triangle showed us that we could increase the Data width to balance the triangle

meantime transistor size shrank

so now we can rebalance the triangle by ?

:)

Neither did I. Glad to see I wasn't the only one.

Is it a SHARC fin ?

C hides lots of this... 

i couldnt understand the meaning of the triangle in page 9. Anyone?

the advantage of 32bit here is only transferring the data.  if it is an event timer, this is done in hw not code

Nah, I'd increment a counter (to 3) and use one 8-bit timer to increment the counter.

for those experiencing adio buffering issues - try pressing the "pause" button on the left, then press the "play" button on the left - this has worked well for me.

Many MCUs that are 8/16-bit have 8, 16 and 32-bit timers.

My audio is streaming in perfectly

The wonders of 64bit or better network connectivity?

I vote for the later

for audio buffering, try browser refresh.

Hi, I'm here. but audio is buffering. 

@mkwired, the audio will be available archived soon after the session

more movie data faster and faster

My laptop is a 64bit machine

Will this audio be available later because it is constantly buffering.

Hi all, I little bit late. I'm from Wilmington, North Carilina, working for GE

electron spin binary is coming

My salary (in real terms) is inversely proportional to Moores Law.

Soon we'll need to shrink the molecules.

Moore's Law is something like transistor count will double evey year in the same die area.

Familiar with Moore's Law

Hi all a little Late From California

Wasn't that doubling every 18 months?

Yes, many times

Yes know of Moore's law

Very familiar with Moore's Law. Like this chart though.

yes

Slight 7 does not look like a Moore's law chart!

I've seen it dozens of times.  Starting to see some significant clustering as the process feature size tops out.

@Chuck: not familiar this particular Moore's law chart. Good chart, and a useful inclusion to this presentation.

Thanks. Looks like our IT has blocked us from accessing this.

Moore's Law: not just a good idea, it's the law!

Familiar with Moore's law.

Have seen and used in the past many times

Yes but I think it's about to expire.  IT had a long run!

yep, I've seen it!

familiar with moore's law. have seen the bleeding edge of this effect.

Moore's Law: Yes, worked for Intel.....  :-)

I have not seen the chart before

yep

Heard of it many times but not in chart form.

moore's law.. each 8months the size is divided by two

yes, know of it

Yes

yes

Yes, in one form or another, But this one has some good detail in it.

Familiar with the Moore's Law, but never seen this particular chart

First time

I've seen it before

yes, seen similar charts

yes

Familiar w/ Moore's Law

Moores law -- seen many times in 40 years

Yes

yes

@rogerspr, If it has not started when you got to this page then hit F5 - need latest version on Flash player.

Have debugged 486 using seg. reg's

(I still have all my wirewrap tools and boxes of colored wire!)  I don't know if I miss those days...   :)

Dealt with Intel segment registers a few times. Not fun.

painfully aware of segment registers

8086/8088 and further 8018x as well.

USED 8051,8085,

Where's the audio / video?

Good afternoon Paul, sorry I'm late tuning in.

Phanton select on the S100 bus to swap out the ROMs and swap in RAM on the Z80!

Good afternoon folks.

I used Motorola 6502 and some of the Z80.

Built 8080A, 8085, Z80, 6502, 6505... all custom built wirewrap versions.

Linkopen: Download slide deck with link on web page.

@linkopen - for slides - there is a link above "todays slide deck" - right click then save to your pc. use a PPT viewer to view the presentation

The slides today are powerpoint.  Use M/S powerpoint, OpenOffice, LibreOffice or powerpoint viewer to see the charts.

Is there a way I can download the soundtrack and listen to it using my smartphone?

is 1802 still used for space craft?

how to see slides?

and 6502 and 6800

I have used all but Hitachi 64C180 as well as 6809 and 6808

built 'my own computer' with 8080.

Have used a few of these 8051, 6800/5/11

z80, 8051/8031

Used Z80, 8052 derivatives

Mine first micro was the Radio Electronics Mark 8, using the 8008.

I started with the z80

if you have lost audio try these 1) refresh your browser (IE use F5) 2) click the pause button in the radio streamer above then press the play button

used 8051 and PIC, I like PIC!

@mkwired: Try F5 to refresh your browser. You sometimes have to "kickstart" the audio widget.

Reloaded web page ond got audio back

I have used Intel 8085 and Motorolla

I've used 8080, Z80, 6502, Z8, 6800, PIC

used z80, 8051 family, 8085

I've used the 8080, 8085, Z80 (still) 8048, (8748) and, hey, don't forget the 1802.

Used 8080, Z80, 8051, 68HC05.  Been around a while!

8080 6805

started by using 8080 and CP/M. progressed to 8085 as my first home built microcomputer. several TRS80 using Z80.

I have used 68HC05 and PIC's

8051 till today

The Altair 8080A was my first micro.  Front panel model.  As for the rest of thes processors, I've used them all.  CP/M or custom OSes/executives.

I have used a few of these in my old microprocessor interfacing class

8080, Z80, 8051, HC11  :)

Still use 8051.

Yes -- Z80, 6805, Datapoint (4004/8008) etc. 8080, 8086

motorola 9s12 familiy - DP512

Audio is good here

I used 6800 family when its clock jumped from 500k to 1 MHz

8080 and Z80

most of them

A lot of them.  8085/8080/8048/8051/68HCxx

8051 just at the college.

used z80

i still use 8085 & 8051 :)

Has the webiner started because I hear nothing?

Yes, Z80 & 8080

@Chuck: I've used many of them.

Have used HC05.

8051 a little

yes,  z80, 8080 6805

Z80

Yes

Yes, I lost the audio as well.

audio loud and clear here

Hi Paul and everyone.

Anybody else loose the audio?

Still have that Altair 8080 A

We still use a Zilog Z80 is some of our products.  very easy to use.

Hello from Maryland

Audio only.  Download the charts from the link above.

Guten tag.

Remember that well  Altair 8080

Hello from Utah

mkwired - there is a slide deck along with the audio - no video

Hello from Sweden

Yes and 6805 and Datapoint... ;-)

Second Machine Connected

1 for audio 1 for other

Hello from Ottawa, Ontario Canada

We don't have weather in San Diego...

Is this an audio only webiner?

Hello from Sunny Lake Simcoe in Ontario Canada

Hello Everyone,

From Rochester NY.  72 Degrees low humidity.  Life is good!

Hello from Fort Worth, TX !

Is Chuck hosting today?

dark tonight, gradually brightening toward morning...

hello again

Hello from Germany

Hi Chuck!

I happy to see some of use remember some really good comedy. Thank you George.

Soon for audio, (seconds)

Hello

is it working yet?

hello

has the audio started yet?

Hello from MA.

Hello

good afternoon, everyone

Night - followed by partly daytime...

Hello all

George Carlin, RIP

Hello Everyone

Hello from Ontario!

with all the weather reports comming in, I wish I could remember the whole "hippy dippy weather man" routine.

Thank you again, Kentj. Reminds me of trying to find the classroom on the first day of school!

hello from SUNNY Miami !!!

Thanks Kentj!

good morning all from sunny Edmonton, AB 23C at the moment.

Hi from San Diego - 

Hello from Washington DC.  Partly sunny and 75F

FYI, if this is your first time and the audio doesn't start on time, hit F5.

Thank you, qizhyo & Kentj!

Ning is logged in.

Hi everybody

Sorry, I meant @itzbobz

@itxbobz Yes and no.  This is the live chat page.  The lecture will (should) come on automatically at 2pm EDT.  Click on Today's Slide Deck and follow along with the audio portion.

"The audio player will load automatically when the lecture audio begins", so we just wait on line?

Hello everyone.

hello everyone from "cool" Dallas - well relatively cool - hi today 91F, tomorrow 86F - a welcome break for Aug when temps are generally 100+

Is this page where the lecture will take place?

Good Morning/Afternoon from Sunny San Jose, CA 68 °F now It will reach to  81 °F @ 3.00PM PST.

Hello everyone.

Hey folks. Looking forward also. See you soon.

Hello all, 

I am Looking forward to this seminar..

Good (period of time as appropriate for you location) everyone from Richmond, TX

Howdy folks!   :)

Good morning to everyone!

willl do

Be sure to download today's slide deck to your desktop and follow along with Paul

hope to attend