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Thanks for the walk down memory lane!

Iron

I have used the 8051 in industrial use.

Iron

Having ground through a lot of 8-bit applications as well as bit slice and custom microsequencer designs it is easy to appreciate the 32 processors of today

Good presentation on comparison of issues between 8 bit to 32 bit processing

Have played with most of these except the Hitachi, first processor I played with was the RCA scamp, built my first digital computer based on a Motorola 6801.  Have put a lot of products in the field with 8048, 8051, 6800 and PIC based circuits.  A basic slurpie machine has a 6811, and up to 5 PICs just to give you a frozen beverage.

Iron

@chuck - not yet, but interested to play with it in the future...

Iron

@chuck - yes, I ahve seen similar charts before...

Iron

@host - used Z80 and 8051

Iron

Great to have access to the recorded sessions

Iron

Missed the live session due to travel...

Iron

Thanks! nice presentation

Iron

Great material to show the shift from 8-Bit to 32-Bit in Today's Microcontroller worls, and the best part is with Today's process technologies the cost of a small entrey Level 32 Bit Micro is the same if not even lower than an 8 Bit Micro.

Iron

I've used many of the old 8-bit uCs.

Iron

I have worked with some of there processsors, primarily as a graduate teaching assistant.  I taught laboratories using the 8085, which was a new device at the time,  and also used the 6800 a little bit.  As an undergraduate I remember entering programs into  an 8080 system with toggle switches.  And don't forget the 6502!

Iron

a very late hi all,

Iron

Good review:

Catching up

I'm still uisng 8051 based MCUs.

I've needed to use complex math to convert between voltage and power.

Thank you Paul and Digikey for the lecture.. It was an awesome one!

Thanks Paul; very informative lecture

Iron

Paul seems to be clueless about all the cool things we are doing with 8 bit micros today.

Remember, we are in a cost competitive environment where our customers do not pay for anything that they do not need.

Iron

Thanks, Paul and Chuck.

Iron

I have used many of these.

Thanks for the class. So far I am learning a lot in this series of classes

Iron

Thanks Paul, Digikey, and everyone.

Iron

Thanks Paul and everyone.

Iron

OK - I must sign off, thank you everyone for your

interest and great questions.  See you tomorrow...

Paul.

 

Blogger

About pipeline again:  Check out the ISB, DSB, DMB

arm instructions!

Blogger

CORTEX-M0 I believe is a three-stage pipeline.

CORTEX-M0 permits memory access re-organization.  We'll

talk some about this tomorrow  -  The pipeline thing is a

fascinating subject.

Blogger

Paul, thank you! This is a great lesson!

Iron

Thanks Paul, great intro lecture. Looking forward for more in-depth info about Cortex.

Quick question: Do you know how many levels of pipeline Cortex-M0 uses ? Is it something like 7-9 ?

Iron

OOOhhh good question: Harvard Architecture.

Interesting answer: Cortex-M0 IS Von-Newman Architecture with pipelines

Cortex-M3/M4 is Harvard Architure, I will talk about this a bit in the next

days.  I will say, it surprised me that -M0 is NOT harvard architecture.

Blogger

gschmick

Slides are available at the time of the webinar.

Iron

Ok, thanks, I'll check back later for the slides.

Iron

Paul, does the ARM processor consider as Harvard architecture?

Iron

The rest of the slides should be ready later today I think.

 

Blogger

Yes, this lecture did belabor the 8-32-bit point.

We'll talk alot more about the guts in the next

few days.

Paul

Blogger

@Paul or Chuck:  I just tried to get tomorrow's slides and got an error.  Have the rest of the packages been poseted?

Iron

PAUL, looks like you haven't seen my question posted twice: 

 

@PAUL: In a nut shell, how would you compare the Cortex x335 A8 and the M0?

Iron

Hi - CORTEX-A8 vs CORTEX-M0

whopping difference!  For one, the

Cortex-A class is different than the -M class.

They are purposed differently.  We'll

touch on -M0, -M3, -M4 differences in the

next few days, but won't compare to the -A's.

Blogger

Yeah, I like the smell of oil in the morning too.

Iron
JSP There will always gonna be people and reasons to look under the hood.
Iron

Ohhh - Symmetric vs non-symmetric

In this case I mean in non-symmetric that

there are lots of special use, special case registers.

They are not so general purpose.  They have restrictions

on use.

Symmetric processor - in constrast allow registers to be used

with few restriction.

This is the short-typed answer.

 

Blogger

I wonder if the idea is for hardware mftrs just to team up with a C/C+ or Java compiler outfit and bring out a toolchain and performance metrics and we just base our decision on the cost/metrics (and don't care anymore whether is is a dual-core chip, FPGA uCs chip or ultrafast 2-bit RISC micro, whatever).

Iron

@PAUL: In a nut shell, how would you compare the Cortex x335 A8 and the M0?

 
Iron

Yes, I lean left....

Blogger

Paul, what is the different symmetric and non-symmetric processor?

Iron

I'm looking forward to more details later!

Iron

Thanks again over all a strong first day 

I'll be back

Thank you. I am looking forward to ARM in detail

Iron

Are you covering the architecure level info of CORTEX MO processor in upcoming letcures? Curious to know on the transistor level design practice of the architecure like static core with dynamic logic core

 

 

Yes, see you tomorrow.

Blogger

So a left leaning triangle is superior to a right leaning triangle.  I think you politics is showing subliminally.

 

Iron

Are you going to provide a history of the ARM processor as well? As far as previous generations? Just a list or timeline to distinguish this one from others?

 

Iron

Thanks Paul, great lecteur very easy to understand.

Iron

Thanks, Paul and Chuck.  May have belabored the point of 8 vs 32 a bit for my taste today, but I'm looking forward to details of ARM to come.

Iron

thanks Paul and Chuck. This was a good intro to why 32bit instead of 8bit. See all tomorrow.

Iron

Hi I see two questions:

1:  What are the triangles?  The triangles were

     in my mind a way of showing the changing balance between feature size and execution time.

     Perhaps a balance itself would have been better!!!! 

 

2)  ARCTAN Question:  Yes, look up tables are good, Cordic function is real good too.

     But for the purist that I am, I turn to the MATH.H library and use atan();

 

Paul.

Blogger

Easy to follow lecture... good job!

Iron

Good Intro.  I need more now.  Looking forward to the rest of the week with you.

Iron

 Thanks for showing example and addressing the latency advantage of 32 bit processing compare to 8 bit

 

Thank you for the lecture, Paul - very clear, concise and a great delivery! Looking forward to the following days...

Iron

Paul there was some confusion on significance of the triangles.  Please repeat.

Silver

thanks have a better understanding with the numbers followed I followed along nicely. 

 

Iron

great intro information...  THANKS PAUL...

have used lookup tables in the past for microcontrollers. linear interpolation between the data points. not very accurate, but good enough at the time

Iron

Thanks, Paul - good to hear you again! Missed you @ Re Union!

 

Mark Kolenik

Iron

Paul great job I especially like the attention to move to the next slide and felt the lecture was clear and to the point 

except maybe the bluefin triangles

Look forward to tomorrow's!

Iron

Paul, what is the meaning of trainsistor size on the two triangles you showed?

Iron

@PAUL: In a nut shell, how would you compare the Cortex x335 A8 and the M0?

Iron

thanks Paul - great introduction - thank you Chuck and DigiKey

Iron

thx, that was on target

 

Iron

Thanks paul, chuck. Good session

Iron

Hi everyone, can I be of help with any questions?

Blogger

Thanks for a good lecture

Iron

"Table" is a very good idea!

Iron

Thanks Paul & Chuck!

 

 

Thanks Paul for lecture

 

Thkx Paul, Chuck.

Iron

When doing higher math, use tables, if you have the space. 

Paul, you have presented this as a truly educational seminar! No hidden promotion of any one vendor. Thanks!

Iron

WHen use "C", I believe no big difference between 8 bit or 32 bit. But the 32 bit core will have short code and run very fast.

 

Iron

In the 8-bit days, there were fewer instructions, but many steps. The problem today is zillions of instruction variation, but quick responding. Hard to learn all these types.

biggest problem on 8 bit, is precision and accuracy

Iron

@Michael Anderson- Dead right !

Iron

I have only done for basic math i.e multiplication and division  for floating point etc

not this one.

Iron

No, not at this time

Iron

@jl: I think the real significance is that the C compiler will generate instruction sequences similar to what is being presented, so that two processors at identical clock speeds take hugely different times to do the exact same line of C source code, even after the compiler does every clever thing it can to optimize.

Iron

Geometrical solutions are a must in our business. Always looking to simplfy.

Silver

Have not done a lot with higher math. Used look up tables as fast work around a couple of times.

Iron

FFT routine on 8 bit micro to  harmonic analyzis

have done math on 8 bit, not pretty

Iron

Higher math yes, absolutely.

Iron

No higher math yet...

Iron

I've had to do this type of calculation for angles in an 8 bit processor.

Iron

Arctan used in position control - I'm a controls engineer

 

Silver

I used lookup tables for higher math answers rather than calculating.

Platinum

I have done this alot with 3d graphics

we use large lookup tables to speed it up

also used alot in checksum generation and cyrpto

Yes.

Done as a taylor serries.

Iron

I have used this kind of math.

Iron

Higher math?  Just before this class.  :)

have not used higher math for embedded work yet.

Iron

Have used approximations to speed up trig fn's

Iron

Slopes and area under curves.

Gold

I used lookuptables to speed up sine on 6502

Iron

linear math transformation can do

Iron

yes math is always tough with 8-bit

Iron

I have - I've used simplified equations that approximate the actual result or lookup tables

Iron

Yes to the Higher Math Functions

Iron

I did several times. They are typical academic examles.

Iron

flotting point calculation

Of course, lots of trig

Iron

Transcendentals suck on 8-bit platforms...

Haven't done it for ages.

Iron

Yup, and the CORDIC !

Iron

Many problems requiring higher math

Iron

If I am correct, 32 bit requires memory alignment -  writting a single byte to an odd address will crash, why? does 8bit has such issue?

Iron

it seems the presentation target is at the machine code and assembler code level - we all understand C code hides all this, but does not help when C is not avaiable on the platform

Iron

Again C code hides these steps

Iron

did not get what is transistor size is doing up there! anyhow . . .

 

Iron

You mean a blue fin dont you

@phildani7 The trangles are showing the relationships of transistor density vs. data width vs. instruction size.  It's a bit inscruitable to just look at it without his description.

 

I think the first triangle showed us that we could increase the Data width to balance the triangle

meantime transistor size shrank

so now we can rebalance the triangle by ?

Neither did I. Glad to see I wasn't the only one.

Iron

Is it a SHARC fin ?

Iron

C hides lots of this... 

i couldnt understand the meaning of the triangle in page 9. Anyone?

Iron

the advantage of 32bit here is only transferring the data.  if it is an event timer, this is done in hw not code

 

Iron

Nah, I'd increment a counter (to 3) and use one 8-bit timer to increment the counter.

Iron

for those experiencing adio buffering issues - try pressing the "pause" button on the left, then press the "play" button on the left - this has worked well for me.

Iron

Many MCUs that are 8/16-bit have 8, 16 and 32-bit timers.

 

Iron

My audio is streaming in perfectly

The wonders of 64bit or better network connectivity?

I vote for the later

for audio buffering, try browser refresh.

Iron

Hi, I'm here. but audio is buffering. 

Iron

@mkwired, the audio will be available archived soon after the session

Iron

more movie data faster and faster

My laptop is a 64bit machine

 

Will this audio be available later because it is constantly buffering.

Iron

Hi all, I little bit late. I'm from Wilmington, North Carilina, working for GE

Iron

electron spin binary is coming

My salary (in real terms) is inversely proportional to Moores Law.

Iron

Soon we'll need to shrink the molecules.

Gold

Moore's Law is something like transistor count will double evey year in the same die area.

Iron

Familiar with Moore's Law

Iron

Hi all a little Late From California

Iron

Wasn't that doubling every 18 months?

Iron

Yes know of Moore's law

Iron

Very familiar with Moore's Law. Like this chart though.

Iron

Slight 7 does not look like a Moore's law chart!

Iron

I've seen it dozens of times.  Starting to see some significant clustering as the process feature size tops out.

 

@Chuck: not familiar this particular Moore's law chart. Good chart, and a useful inclusion to this presentation.

Iron

Thanks. Looks like our IT has blocked us from accessing this.

Iron

Moore's Law: not just a good idea, it's the law!

Iron

Familiar with Moore's law.

Iron

Have seen and used in the past many times

Iron

Yes but I think it's about to expire.  IT had a long run!

Iron

yep, I've seen it!

Iron

familiar with moore's law. have seen the bleeding edge of this effect.

Iron

Moore's Law: Yes, worked for Intel.....  :-)

 

Iron

I have not seen the chart before

 

Iron

Heard of it many times but not in chart form.

Gold

moore's law.. each 8months the size is divided by two

 

Yes, in one form or another, But this one has some good detail in it.

 

Iron

Familiar with the Moore's Law, but never seen this particular chart

Iron

yes, seen similar charts

Familiar w/ Moore's Law

Iron

Moores law -- seen many times in 40 years

Iron

@rogerspr, If it has not started when you got to this page then hit F5 - need latest version on Flash player.

Silver

Have debugged 486 using seg. reg's

Iron

(I still have all my wirewrap tools and boxes of colored wire!)  I don't know if I miss those days...   :)

Dealt with Intel segment registers a few times. Not fun.

Iron

painfully aware of segment registers

Iron

8086/8088 and further 8018x as well.

Iron

Where's the audio / video?

 

Iron

Good afternoon Paul, sorry I'm late tuning in.

Iron

Phanton select on the S100 bus to swap out the ROMs and swap in RAM on the Z80!

Good afternoon folks.

Iron

I used Motorola 6502 and some of the Z80.

Iron

Built 8080A, 8085, Z80, 6502, 6505... all custom built wirewrap versions.

Iron

Linkopen: Download slide deck with link on web page.

Iron

@linkopen - for slides - there is a link above "todays slide deck" - right click then save to your pc. use a PPT viewer to view the presentation

Iron

The slides today are powerpoint.  Use M/S powerpoint, OpenOffice, LibreOffice or powerpoint viewer to see the charts.

Is there a way I can download the soundtrack and listen to it using my smartphone?

Iron

is 1802 still used for space craft?

Iron

and 6502 and 6800

Iron

I have used all but Hitachi 64C180 as well as 6809 and 6808

Iron

built 'my own computer' with 8080.

Have used a few of these 8051, 6800/5/11

Iron

Used Z80, 8052 derivatives

 

Iron

Mine first micro was the Radio Electronics Mark 8, using the 8008.

Iron

I started with the z80

 

Silver

if you have lost audio try these 1) refresh your browser (IE use F5) 2) click the pause button in the radio streamer above then press the play button

Iron

used 8051 and PIC, I like PIC!

Iron

@mkwired: Try F5 to refresh your browser. You sometimes have to "kickstart" the audio widget.

Iron

Reloaded web page ond got audio back

Iron

I have used Intel 8085 and Motorolla

 

Iron

I've used 8080, Z80, 6502, Z8, 6800, PIC

used z80, 8051 family, 8085

Iron

I've used the 8080, 8085, Z80 (still) 8048, (8748) and, hey, don't forget the 1802.

Iron

Used 8080, Z80, 8051, 68HC05.  Been around a while!

Iron

started by using 8080 and CP/M. progressed to 8085 as my first home built microcomputer. several TRS80 using Z80.

Iron

I have used 68HC05 and PIC's

The Altair 8080A was my first micro.  Front panel model.  As for the rest of thes processors, I've used them all.  CP/M or custom OSes/executives.

I have used a few of these in my old microprocessor interfacing class

8080, Z80, 8051, HC11  :)

Iron

Yes -- Z80, 6805, Datapoint (4004/8008) etc. 8080, 8086

Iron

motorola 9s12 familiy - DP512

Audio is good here

 

Iron

I used 6800 family when its clock jumped from 500k to 1 MHz

 

Platinum

A lot of them.  8085/8080/8048/8051/68HCxx

 

Iron

8051 just at the college.

i still use 8085 & 8051 :)

 

Iron

Has the webiner started because I hear nothing?

Iron

@Chuck: I've used many of them.

Iron

yes,  z80, 8080 6805

 

Yes, I lost the audio as well.

Iron

audio loud and clear here

Iron

Hi Paul and everyone.

Iron

Anybody else loose the audio?

Iron

Still have that Altair 8080 A

Iron

We still use a Zilog Z80 is some of our products.  very easy to use.

Iron

Audio only.  Download the charts from the link above.

 

Remember that well  Altair 8080

 

Iron

mkwired - there is a slide deck along with the audio - no video

Iron

Hello from Sweden

 

Iron

Yes and 6805 and Datapoint... ;-)

Iron

Second Machine Connected

1 for audio 1 for other

Hello from Ottawa, Ontario Canada

 

Iron

We don't have weather in San Diego...

Is this an audio only webiner?

Iron

Hello from Sunny Lake Simcoe in Ontario Canada

Iron

Hello Everyone,

From Rochester NY.  72 Degrees low humidity.  Life is good!

 

Iron

Hello from Fort Worth, TX !

Iron

Is Chuck hosting today?

Iron

dark tonight, gradually brightening toward morning...

Platinum

Hello from Germany

Iron

I happy to see some of use remember some really good comedy. Thank you George.

Iron

Soon for audio, (seconds)

 

Iron

has the audio started yet?

good afternoon, everyone

Iron

Night - followed by partly daytime...

 

with all the weather reports comming in, I wish I could remember the whole "hippy dippy weather man" routine.

Iron

Thank you again, Kentj. Reminds me of trying to find the classroom on the first day of school!

Iron

hello from SUNNY Miami !!!

good morning all from sunny Edmonton, AB 23C at the moment.

Iron

Hello from Washington DC.  Partly sunny and 75F

 

FYI, if this is your first time and the audio doesn't start on time, hit F5.

Iron

Thank you, qizhyo & Kentj!

Iron

Ning is logged in.

 

Iron

Sorry, I meant @itzbobz

Iron

@itxbobz Yes and no.  This is the live chat page.  The lecture will (should) come on automatically at 2pm EDT.  Click on Today's Slide Deck and follow along with the audio portion.

Iron

"The audio player will load automatically when the lecture audio begins", so we just wait on line?

Iron

hello everyone from "cool" Dallas - well relatively cool - hi today 91F, tomorrow 86F - a welcome break for Aug when temps are generally 100+

Iron

Is this page where the lecture will take place?

Iron

Good Morning/Afternoon from Sunny San Jose, CA 68 °F now It will reach to  81 °F @ 3.00PM PST.

Iron

Hey folks. Looking forward also. See you soon.

Hello all, 

I am Looking forward to this seminar..

Good (period of time as appropriate for you location) everyone from Richmond, TX

Iron
Which CPU will be used.
Iron

Good morning to everyone!

Iron

Be sure to download today's slide deck to your desktop and follow along with Paul

 

Iron


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