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Beth Stackpole
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Blogger
Great job for a robot
Beth Stackpole   7/20/2012 8:05:02 AM
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This seems like a perfect use case for a robot partner when you consider the danger factor related to the underwater mines coupled with the difficulties humans could have navigating under water. Sounds like a lot of complex thinking went into the design, especially around the computer graphics algorithms and use of sensors.

naperlou
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Blogger
Re: Great job for a robot
naperlou   7/20/2012 9:02:51 AM
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Actually,this is a lot like those robots you can buy that autonomously sweep your floor.  They are just much more sophisticated.  Of course, they might want to look at other sensors, like vision.  Since the robot can, on the second pass, get close to the hull, that could work.

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
Ann R. Thryft   7/20/2012 12:29:48 PM
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What the Navy calls HULS resemble some of the existing autonomous underwater vehicles (AUVs) and remotely operated vehicles (ROVs) we included in the nautical robots slideshow, especially the Bluefin Robotics hovering autonomous underwater vehicle (HAUV): http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1386&doc_id=246206&image_number=13 Since this basic technology has been used by the military for some time, including for mine detection, I wonder why the Navy has decided to invent its own versions?

NadineJ
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
NadineJ   7/20/2012 1:21:53 PM
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@Ann- From what I'm reading, the function is the same but the operation is different.  The HAUV requires human interaction and the HULS moves underwater and around ships on its own.

I know the Navy struggles with keeping EOD (Explosive Ordnance Disposal) units fully staffed with highly qualified candidates.  Mechanizing underwater mine sweeping would require less manpower.  And, the Navy could focus more training on the skilled EOD techs for other operations.

Ann R. Thryft
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Blogger
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
Ann R. Thryft   7/25/2012 11:54:34 AM
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Maybe I'm being too literal, but the HAUVs in our nautical robot slideshow http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1386&doc_id=246206 are by definition autonomous vehicles (the "A" in HAUV), which means they don 't require human interaction. So I still don't get why the Navy wants to reinvent their own version (and, of course, call it by a different name).  Unless it's to have their own algorithm?



JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
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Blogger
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   7/20/2012 2:30:46 PM
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I get that this new algorithm takes a pass-by-pass approach (like cutting the lawn) over the old methods of big-image & zoom-in.  But I'm not sure I understand the Navy's interest in locating explosive devices on ships which have already sunk.  These impose Risk to someone-?  And they've been 10 years in development on this-?  I think I'm missing the value-added point of this project ,,,,,(?)

NadineJ
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
NadineJ   7/20/2012 10:12:27 PM
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@JimT-Unexploded ordnance is a majour problem around world.  We all know about the damage land mines pose to locals in former war-torn areas.  Sea mines are just as dangerous and distructive.

notarboca
User Rank
Gold
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
notarboca   7/21/2012 7:52:11 AM
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@JimT-The Navy's not concerned with previously sunken ships--they worry about currently deployed assets at anchor.  Consider Fleet Week in Ft. Lauderdale, FL.  A carrier group comes in fairly close to shore.  A terrorist with rebreather equipment (no bubbles) could deploy a small limpet mine amongst the propellor/rudder structure.  These autonomous robots hopefully can detect this if all other security measures have failed.  I imagine that the detection algorithm in typically limited visibility and complex structure is what took 10 years to develop and test.

JimT@Future-Product-Innovations
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Blogger
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
JimT@Future-Product-Innovations   7/21/2012 3:42:58 PM
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That makes sense.  Thanks for the explanation.  I guess I have a hard time "getting" the thought-process of deviant activity.  My mind tends to direct thoughts toward constructive, vs. destructive activities.  Guess I'd make a poor CIA counter-terrorist!

sensor pro
User Rank
Gold
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
sensor pro   7/22/2012 9:48:44 AM
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You make a good point. Some years back we were looking at some sensitivity of mines to metalic objects and some navigation devices to direct divers to mines. The biggest problem was the fact that many mines sence approaching metal as a threat or a target and detonate, so we needed to find one that has a very small or no metal signature.  I do not know haw these robots can approach a magnetic mine.

mrdon
User Rank
Gold
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
mrdon   7/22/2012 6:35:25 PM
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Possibly adding an inductive sensing coil similar to a proximity sensor or a metal detector could possibly be used with crab seeking underwater robots to detect the mines. Sounds like a good Capstone project for an undergraduate engineeering team to research and implement.

sensor pro
User Rank
Gold
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
sensor pro   7/22/2012 6:44:59 PM
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You are correct. Very good recommendations. Thanks.

mrdon
User Rank
Gold
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
mrdon   7/22/2012 8:06:38 PM
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Your quite welcome. There's a group of students at ITT Tech buidling a mobile robot using a metal detector kit to locate metal objects for their Capstone Project. Sounds interesting and I look forward to their finish product and results.

sensor pro
User Rank
Gold
Re: Why is the Navy reinventing the wheel?
sensor pro   7/22/2012 10:23:41 PM
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It is very interesting. I will try to inquire about the project. It may be something useful.

 

williamlweaver
User Rank
Platinum
Crab-Seeking Underwater Robots
williamlweaver   7/20/2012 3:05:18 PM
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I was just thinking about these types of applications this week. It's not as elegant and sexy as underwater mine detection, but how soon before someone designs an autonomous crab trap?
 
After several seasons of Deadliest Catch, each time I see it on TV I think of the opportunity to design either a self-navigating underwater crab trap, or a self-navigating underwater crab trap deployment/collector. Now that the fishermen of Deadliest Catch can live off of their residuals from the Discovery Channel, I would assume that we have all of the technology required to design a system that:
 
1) Propels itself along the sea floor
2) Uses sensors to detect high populations of crab
3) Deploys a baited crab trap or simply parks its integrated trap on the sea floor
4) Detects when a predetermined number of crab have entered the trap
5) Collects the filled trap or launches off of the sea floor
6) Navigates back to port autonomously
 
Not only would it be lucrative, it would also reduce the fatalities in the #1 deadliest job in the US, commercial fishing. 
 
I'll get the drawn butter ready if anyone would like to join me on this project.


Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Crab-Seeking Underwater Robots
Charles Murray   7/20/2012 7:09:24 PM
I think you're onto to something, Bill. Every time I watch Deadliest Catch I wonder if technology could make that job safer. Now, we need a robotic alligator finder to help those guys on Gator Boys.

mrdon
User Rank
Gold
Re: Crab-Seeking Underwater Robots
mrdon   7/21/2012 6:24:58 PM
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Robotics have been used in space exploration, wood manufacturing, and composites defect inspection applications to alleviate endangerment to humans. Why not the last frontier, oceans. Since crabs scour the ocean floors looking for food, making robot replicas to find mines make perfect since.

Dozer789
User Rank
Iron
Re: Crab-Seeking Underwater Robots
Dozer789   7/20/2012 8:31:53 PM
NO RATINGS
I think that is good idea william, although i have never watched the deadliest catch i know how dangerous it is. I would help you but i am not an engineer and also i dont know much about how to make projects that require sensers, robots ect.

     Nothing Ventured, Nothing Gained.

notarboca
User Rank
Gold
Re: Crab-Seeking Underwater Robots
notarboca   7/21/2012 7:59:42 AM
NO RATINGS
@williamlweaver, I think the R&D, sensors, navigation, and propulsion would be interesting and difficult challenges, but it could work.


Plus, I'm hungry!  :-)



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