HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
<<  <  Page 2/10  >  >>
Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: It all depends...
Rob Spiegel   7/17/2012 2:46:57 PM
NO RATINGS
First off, Chuck, with those high gas prices, people would probably drive less, which would dampen demand and bring the cost down. The high gas prices would also fuel (so to speak) more exploration and extraction technologies (as we've seen in recent years). All of that would increase supply and bring down gas prices. When it comes down to it, high gas prices cannot be sustained -- as odd as that may sound.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: It all depends...
Charles Murray   7/17/2012 2:59:05 PM
NO RATINGS
Rob, this op-ed from The New York Times seems to agree with you.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/opinion/sunday/the-new-politics-of-energy.html?pagewanted=all

apresher
User Rank
Blogger
Coping with High Gas Prices
apresher   7/17/2012 3:01:57 PM
NO RATINGS
Chuck, I agree that the bottom line is that many consumers have apparently reached a tipping point in terms of vehicle selection and gas prices. Nothing drives technology change like market forces and the movement of $$$.

warren@fourward.com
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Coping with High Gas Prices
warren@fourward.com   7/17/2012 3:33:56 PM
NO RATINGS
I will certainly stay home more, shop less, buy less, and watch the spiral down to oblivion as prices continue to rise.  I already make more careful choices when I drive as the expense is painful.  That can't be good for the economy, especially since there is gobs of energy left untapped.  And electric is no good, as electricity is so expensive, as well. 

I think Fred Flintstone had it right 100,000 years ago!

Shallowford
User Rank
Iron
Fuel strategy
Shallowford   7/17/2012 3:36:55 PM
NO RATINGS
We already have a cost effective, fuel efficient car (paid for, 30+MPG). Given the tax issues people have had with biodiesel and woodgas conversions I think we'll stay away from alternative fuels for now. 

If gas prices continue to rise I would prefer to continue with a used, cost effective car (not bleeding edge fuel economy and a lot less expensive) and focus on my other fuel bills (home heating, electricity) instead.  I can make those changes without running foul of the IRS and the ROI is a lot quicker than a Prius or Volt.

rjnerd
User Rank
Iron
Serial vs Parallel hybrid.
rjnerd   7/17/2012 4:42:17 PM
NO RATINGS
A parallel hybrid is a far better choice.  First a metal shaft is a whole lot more efficient at power transfer than generator/charge battery/electric motor. (with the overhead of the batteries being the big hit.  Typically you only get 70% of what you put in back out.  The electric motors do a lot better, usually >95%.)


But the other problem is system weight.  You need a generator that is capable of generating the full power output of the engine, and an electric drive motor that has all the horsepower that you need to accellerate. (bigger than the generator by the batteries peak discharge rate)  Both of those mean a lot of weight that you rarely use.  Sure you could take the tack that you size engine and generator for average power required, making both smaller, but you still need the big drive motor, and a battery pack capable of pure electric's discharge rates.

A parallel hybrid means a much smaller generator, as it only needs to output the batteries charge rate limit.  This will be  is a lot lower than  the discharge limit.  (typically 10% of discharge max if you want them to not catch fire).  The drive motor(s) only need to produce power up to the limit of your battery discharge rate, need more power, fire the IC engine, its power just adding. 

If you are clever about it, the motor(s) are also the generator.  In the case of Honda, they built a motor/generator combo into the flywheel.  (single motor system, means they can't move without the engine turning). I have heard it reffered to as an "electric turbo", with the bonus of rapid engine restart to allow for stoplight engine shutdown.

In the case of the Toyota system (The Ford system is basically the same layout), they use two electric motors, connected to the IC engine thru a planetary gear.  This allows them to move without the engine turning.  They also use the electric motors to synthesize the cars CVT "transmission", there is no conventional gearbox, or the variable pulleys of a normal CVT.  The IC engine is connected to the sun gear, one motor/gen drives the planet carrier, and the ring gear has a chain drive to the drive axle, which has the second electric motor directly connected (it is always turning when the car is moving).  With the car moving and IC engine off, the electric motor connected to the planet carrier just freewheels.  With the IC engine turning, the control system picks a rpm and direction for planet's driving motor to give the desired ratio thru to the ring gear. 

Jon Titus
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Coping with High Gas Prices
Jon Titus   7/17/2012 5:15:08 PM
NO RATINGS
Good thinking, Warren.  I would probably ride a bike to local stores and to visit family nearby. We would limit car trips--we share one vehicle--to one or two a week and spend the day buying groceries, running errands, etc.  I'd get haircuts at home and we'd start to grow some of our own food.  Lots of ways to overcome high gas prices and higher prices overall.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Indifference
Charles Murray   7/17/2012 6:04:45 PM
NO RATINGS
Interesting story from the New York Times: "Americans may protest loudly, but their economic behavior indicates a remarkable indifference to the price of oil."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/01/magazine/rising-gas-prices-dont-actually-affect-americans-behavior.html

Dave Palmer
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Coping with High Gas Prices
Dave Palmer   7/17/2012 6:21:27 PM
NO RATINGS
I grew up in Chicago and never owned a car until I moved out of town, when I was in my mid-20s. There was no need; I could take public transportation anywhere I wanted to go.  I never had to make a car payment or an insurance payment, pay for parking, or buy gas.  I could also read, study, or do homework during my commute. talk on my cell phone without having to worry about getting a ticket, and sleep without having to worry about getting in an accident (although I did have to worry about missing my stop).

The total cost was about $1000 a year in passes, plus occasionally having to stand outside in the snow waiting for the bus.  I consider it one of the best deals I've ever had.

Show me a hybrid with that kind of ROI and I'll buy it!

NadineJ
User Rank
Platinum
Some are already there
NadineJ   7/17/2012 6:37:11 PM
NO RATINGS
Outside of the US, gas prices are already the equivalent of $5, $6, or even $7 a gallon.

If it happens here, we'll adapt, as humans do.  In places where gas prices are higher, I've noticed that people live differently.  They'll walk 6 blocks to go to lunch.  In the US, co-workers will jump in someone's car to go 3 blocks.  Trips are planned more economically and cars are a luxury.

Most of those countries are smaller than the US, some even smaller than Califirnia.  Because of that, they have a more established public transit system.

Personally, I'd ride my motorcycle or bicycle more often and save the car for trips that require it.

<<  <  Page 2/10  >  >>


Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administrationís recent backup camera mandate could open the door to more vehicle innovations, including better graphical displays, 360-degree camera views, and the increased use of Ethernet.
With support from National Instruments, a group of dedicated students from Connally High School in Austin, where more than 50% of the students are at risk of not graduating, have created a successful robotics team that is competing in the FIRST World Championships.
Solar Impulse 2 -- a 100% solar-powered airplane -- has been completed. It features several advanced materials, some developed specifically for next year's attempted around-the-world flight.
Sherlock Ohms highlights stories told by engineers who have used their deductive reasoning and technical prowess to troubleshoot and solve the most perplexing engineering mysteries.
Lumus and eyeSight have partnered to create consumer-grade devices that offer all the prime functions of smart glasses without the bulk.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
3/27/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
2/27/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
12/18/2013 Available On Demand
11/20/2013 Available On Demand
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Apr 21 - 25, Creating & Testing Your First RTOS Application Using MQX
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Next Class: April 29 - Day 1
Sponsored by maxon precision motors
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service