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bobjengr
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Platinum
MEDICAL CHECKLIST
bobjengr   7/14/2012 12:04:33 PM
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Dr.  Petroski—excellent article!  I suppose I'm really uninformed.  I thought that surely all surgeons had some form of WRITTEN checklist prior to performing an operation.  As an engineering program manager, I would never start a program without a schedule indicating critical path AND a checklist noting those items necessary to accomplish completion.  It becomes even more important when differing design and drafting locations are involved.  I know you don't have the location issue with surgery but one very tired surgeon operating day after day will make mistakes.  It's not if but when.    My own doctor has indicated to me several times he needs an IE to examine the organizational aspects of his office.  The "doctoring" is quite adequate but front office staff run the place like a zoo. 

warren@fourward.com
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Checklists naturally grow, with age
warren@fourward.com   7/9/2012 6:24:44 PM
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The problem with medicine is that every doctor is a cowboy.  They have license to do pretty much what they can convince the other doctors is standard "operating" procedure.

I think there is great merit in standardizing as much as you can with what has been successful.  We all do it in manufacturing, service, and design.  Why not the medical community? 

And, how about doctors routinely giving drugs to minors that have not been approved for minors, such as mind altering psychotropics?  There should be a checklist for that, too!

gsmith120
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Checklists naturally grow, with age
gsmith120   7/9/2012 5:01:28 AM
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JimT I agree with you.  As a designer I certainly have a mental checklist but I believe the key word is "written".  One of my college professors would always make us write stuff down because he said "if you write it down then that says you have thought about it".  I agree most of the time if you write something down you have thought about it. 

ab3a
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Petroski on Engineering: Checklists and Design
ab3a   7/6/2012 7:51:50 AM
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Good Point! 


It needs to be said that the act of creation can not be made in to a checklist.  However, there can be a checklist of issues to consider. 

 

Jake Brodsky

dindyk
User Rank
Iron
Re: Check-List Limits
dindyk   7/5/2012 7:14:44 PM
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fixated has negative connotations. BUMPFF was RAF standard finals check mnemonic before landing on propellor driven aircraft. i think 'brakes off' is an important check. not fixated at all...just pointing out something missing in your checklist. however if you feel you do not need to check that the brakes are off prior to landing...well, i guess thats up to you.

ab3a
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Check-List Limits
ab3a   7/5/2012 6:43:34 AM
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Aircraft fly the same no matter what part of the world you live in. 

That said, the English language isn't even the same in various regions of the UK and US, never mind Australia, New Zealand, Canada, other parts of the world...


Use whatever mnemonics work for you. They appear to be essentially the same, though it appears you have fixated on one phase of flight with your mnemonic. 


I cycle through the GUMPF list several times.  One does different stuff at different phases of landing.  This is a quick and dirty method to ensure I haven't left anything obvious or deadly on the list. 

ab3a
User Rank
Platinum
Re:Check-ListLimits
ab3a   7/5/2012 6:29:57 AM
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I'm not sure what happened with that comment.  It looked good when I sent it. 

dindyk
User Rank
Iron
Re:Check-ListLimits
dindyk   7/4/2012 5:57:25 PM
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Yeah,overintheukwealsodonotusespacesbetweenwordssowedohavethatincommon.butstillithinkbrakesoffisanimportantthingtohaveonalandingchecklist.

Jack Rupert, PE
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Petroski on Engineering: Checklists and Design
Jack Rupert, PE   7/4/2012 2:33:13 PM
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I remember once when I was doing a product commissioning in another country, the customer had a consultant who lived and died by his ever-present check lists.  While that made him extremely thorough in his own area of expertise, it caused a certain amount of gamesmanship among some of the others.  He obviously couldn't know the details of every component to be checked, so he had to rely on others to furnish the information necessary to create the checklists.  I found some people to be very creative in the information they gave him so as to receive very generic responsibilities on the checklist.

ab3a
User Rank
Platinum
Re:Check-ListLimits
ab3a   7/4/2012 12:12:11 PM
NO RATINGS
Ican'timaginethataircraftflyanydifferentlyintheUKthantheydointheUS.(Grin)

Butthatsaid,thoughwe'resupposedtospeakthesamelanguage,IcansayfrompersonalexperiencesittinginaroomfullofKiwis,Brits,Aussies,Canucks,andevenpeoplefrommanydifferentstates--wedon'tspeakthesamelingo. 




Usewhatworks. 


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