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Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Big smile.
Charles Murray   6/22/2012 6:12:30 PM
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Dennis, I laughed out loud when I saw your earlier comment. You're right. Guilty as charged.

Chris PE
User Rank
Gold
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
Chris PE   6/22/2012 3:48:27 PM
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@Dennis.....No it was to Jackie.My apologies.Chreers. Chris

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
Bunter   6/22/2012 3:31:02 PM
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Thanks Charles.

Dennis

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
Bunter   6/22/2012 2:03:44 PM
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Hi Chris,

Will try to get back to your earlier post when I have time.

Just a quicky.

Yes people buy 50K trucks (not a truck guy myself), though most are far less $.

But very few buy small 4 seaters that cost 40k. Unless they are fast. Part of it is capability for the buck. Small $40k cars are luxury items whether your luxury is speed or green cred.

Personally I fell a minivan with a trailer is a better pickup than a pickup w/o a trailer but many see it differently.

And keep in mind the Volt/Leaf are not $40K cars, they are vehicles that are more expensive than that being sold that low for R & D/Marketing (and probably other)reasons.

And the tax credits that apply to the Tesla are a subsidy from the tax paying public.

Cheerio.

Dennis

Chris PE
User Rank
Gold
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
Chris PE   6/22/2012 12:51:27 PM
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Well....interesting comments. First of all GMC does not build trains and NEVER did. You must have been thinking about GE. SEcondary many mentioned manufacturers and NOT subsidized by Government. Surely NOT Tesla. Third point - read a post below you to understand what we are talking about. When people buy $50.000.00 trucks they can afford 40,000.00 EV. NO DOUBT - END OF DISCUSSION.Cheers,Chris

jackiecox
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
jackiecox   6/22/2012 10:26:33 AM
The Idea of EV's from one perspective, makes a lot of sense a rotating electromagnetic field around the axle eliminate thousands of parts, then there's the source of energy to provide the right frequencies (RPM) and amplitude, or batteries and transformers. on smaler scales it proves to pass the test of economic justification, however to propell am automobile down the road is a daunting task, considering the cost, life. fashion, battery life costs -vs-gasoline or whatever, at the end of the day, EV's simply don't pass the test of consumers. GMC, without a doubt the greatest R & D Lad for cars, trucks, buses, trains, gave us the volt. at tremendous cost, which failes miserably, although selling 1,000 or so a month, then when the rubber meets the road and all variables are considered, its just another obanomic disbarred lawyer idea, or bamkruptcy scam with the doe giving them cash to pretend they are making EY's to fill the high demand---pkugincars.com---keeps track of the reality. althopughnot listed in financial perspectives, IPO's. etc, the show the real numbers, which expose the lies by people like ironman musk and his ongoing scam that loses billions when combined with his other government sponsered events, like spacex. solar city. and tsla, where he has been lieing since the early 2000's while the real world ignore his scams, the good thing, he will dissappear whenever the treasonous barry does

jackiecox
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
jackiecox   6/22/2012 10:26:32 AM
NO RATINGS
The Idea of EV's from one perspective, makes a lot of sense a rotating electromagnetic field around the axle eliminate thousands of parts, then there's the source of energy to provide the right frequencies (RPM) and amplitude, or batteries and transformers. on smaler scales it proves to pass the test of economic justification, however to propell am automobile down the road is a daunting task, considering the cost, life. fashion, battery life costs -vs-gasoline or whatever, at the end of the day, EV's simply don't pass the test of consumers. GMC, without a doubt the greatest R & D Lad for cars, trucks, buses, trains, gave us the volt. at tremendous cost, which failes miserably, although selling 1,000 or so a month, then when the rubber meets the road and all variables are considered, its just another obanomic disbarred lawyer idea, or bamkruptcy scam with the doe giving them cash to pretend they are making EY's to fill the high demand---pkugincars.com---keeps track of the reality. althopughnot listed in financial perspectives, IPO's. etc, the show the real numbers, which expose the lies by people like ironman musk and his ongoing scam that loses billions when combined with his other government sponsered events, like spacex. solar city. and tsla, where he has been lieing since the early 2000's while the real world ignore his scams, the good thing, he will dissappear whenever the treasonous barry does

ironhorse
User Rank
Iron
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
ironhorse   6/22/2012 9:48:06 AM
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Never ascribe to malice that which may be explained by collective foolishness. (c.f., Albrecht's Law: Social innovations tend to the level of minimum tolerable well-being. [Application: the market will experience the most expensive HEVs/EVs that vendor-customer behaviors can support])

I live in a university town that doubles as a regional service center, so I see a good number of college students, doctors, lawyers, real-estate agents, insurance agents, and tenured professors and their spouses and kids running around in new $30K-$40K+ trucks. I have to think one significant part of the reason EVs and HEVs are high priced is same reason the general car market and 'health'care market is inflated, there is a lot of affluence out there (or at least enough affleuence to define the market). I know batteries are expensive, but it is also the Car makers' fiduciary responsibility is to sell the highest priced vehicles they can, and the present market can bear some high EV prices.

Thems with the gold makes the rules, so if the market is moving $30K-$40K+ internal combustion SUVs and trucks, I (perhaps naively) think that influences the price point for the introduction of HEVs/EVs.

Bunter
User Rank
Platinum
Re: There is a conspiracy
Bunter   6/22/2012 9:05:14 AM
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Good example Larry.  If batteries really were as cheap as many understandably want to believe a company like Tesla would be very eager to pass that on and start moving some real volume.

The answer to tluxon's question is that the consumers have been asked if they will buy the best engineered electric vehicles we can currently make, sold at a loss by the manufacturer, subsidized by DC; a technological bargin deal, and they are overwhelmingly saying "No!".

The product isn't ready yet and creating straw man scenerios that others are supposed to answer will not change that.

Take care,

Dennis

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Competition and the profit motive trump conspiracy
Charles Murray   6/21/2012 8:59:38 PM
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Dennis: Interesting story in a recent edition of TheNew York Times that relates to the subject you mentioned:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/10/opinion/sunday/the-new-politics-of-energy.html?_r=1

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