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thanks again for excellent presentation sir rick...thanks to design news and design news...

so fast! only few slides about the topic! now i am in slide 8 out of 10...

just start with the slide, i jus took my lunch...here we go with slide 2...

just downloading the presentation slides for references while sir rick is discussing...

good morning sir rick, i am here again for day 3 class lesson to continue for the whole week class...

Thank you for archiving this class.

Iron

Thank you Rick, very interesting topic about modular test systems

Hello to archive learners

Testing Electrical Submersible Pump Systems.

Iron

Hi Rick,

I'll post this tomorrow as well. In order to support useful test software modularty, what organization/sequencing/structure/hierarchy do you recommend?

Iron

 

Please be more specific.  Also, I don't recommend anything.  I will only point you to more information.

Blogger

your slides are really useful for us to understand the daily topics

Iron

todays lecture was really informative,realy thankful to you rick

Iron

have a nice time to all

Iron

thanks rick for today session

Iron

Hi Rick,

I'll post this tomorrow as well. In order to support useful test software modularty, what organization/sequencing/structure/hierarchy do you recommend?

I'm logging off for today.  I will check this chat for more questions.   Look for your unanswered questions on this day's chat page.  Many of your constructive comments and questions are making this webinar more valuable for all of us.  Thank you.

Blogger

I agree cost is always a factor to management. How about satisfying your customer? Would you care about the cost?

 

Iron

If a company cannot generate profit, it cannot exist.  If it has no customers, it cannot exist either.  Since there is usually a lag between getting customers and turning profit, management worries.  It's there job to worry.

Blogger

@RickGoldberg: I believe I did give credit to Google. In an Internet-enabled age, it really takes very little time to track sources. I don't feel that it is wasted time. Implementing software -- including software-defined test -- is what I do every day -- so I guess that is where I spend my time. Of course there is a lot of information about test automation out there, though I won't dispute that NI emerged early as a champion in this market space and has a lot of good info available. See you tomorrow!

Iron

Thank you for good comments.  Software Defined Radios are products in which software is downloaded from a different source, enabling it to be customized depending upon access permission.  Softwre Defined Test uses the software on a PC to test a device.  Integrated Development Environments (IDE) are products, and in some csaes are the only product type a particular vendor sells.  Application Development Environments (ADE) are areas, not specific products.

Blogger

Regarding audio problems.  I am listening to the archived audio now.  It sounds very clear to me, To get to the archived audio, go to the page just before you got to this one with the chat, and the audio will automatically play.

 

Blogger

And will post any of my comments as they occur

I' listening in to the archived lecture

Well I started out with my best intentions but got pulled away for an emergancy

I'm new to LabView... However, I've occasionally used LabWindows since the days of DOS. In fact, a version called TestTeam from Fluke was my first experience with it. Then migrated to the LabWindows/CVI (Windows) and Measurement Studio Develpment Environment about ten years ago.

Having said that I do have a couple of HW based devices, which are used for debugging and driver design including a legacy NI GPIB-400 Bus Tester. What kind of debuggers are now being used for this purpose? Is software debugging becoming more prevalent than the old hardware based debuggers were?

TIA

Iron

Have to suspect something -- if I see the "buffering" tick-tick-ticking in the "radio" player above, I wonder if I'm seeing a repetitive resource-grabber with a low percentage duty cycle WHICH, if it happens to collide with a "post" event, will stomp on my post. And yeah, the odds of it (the post-stomper) being VISIBLE would seem to be pretty small -- many other potential culprits abound, I know... Could be as simple as "don't use emphatic-emphasis hypertext characters" too.

 

(No, when I say "system ignoring posts" I mean "I clicked "POST" and nothing displayed. What I typed went 'away', never to be seen and, too often, unduplicable". I wasn't up to the level of "I said something, you didn't respond". I don't expect closure on EVERYthing I say, that would be unreasonable. Thanks, though)

 

"Tracking its sources" IS useful, since those sources usually include expanded references and additional info links. Aggregate, aggregate, but don't hide open-source "not original" materials...

 

I'm outahere. For now. Hasta manana.

Platinum

@flaredOne: I just Googled the term "Application Development Environment". That just sounded like a vender-specific variant of "Integrated Development Environment". Sure enough, one of the first hits turned up some of the exact words I was hearing over the webinar audio. Once we diverged, I decided he must have moved to another page, so I Googled the words he happened to be reading at the moment, which were "configuration manager such as max". Bingo! Another hit!

Iron

Give credit to Google.  And spend more time implementing this information, not tracking its sources.

Blogger

LevitonDave: Been scrolling through the posts... Yes, I liked the HP com analyzer. It would do some receiver tests our "K Mart" brand analyzer wouldn't. And it was great for chewcking PL coded squelch sensitivity. I loved it.

Since I tend toward more lengthy comments, I'm going to get aggravated if I can't figure out WHY the system seems to ignore some posts (and not others).

Iron

It's not the system ignoring your posts.  Blame me. For those questions I cannot answer, I am asking the vendors.  If they don't respond by Friday, I will post their contact information.

Blogger

Can you compare LabView with PI and Wonderware

Iron

Since I tend toward more lengthy comments, I'm going to get aggravated if I can't figure out WHY the system seems to ignore some posts (and not others).

Platinum

If you want the presentation with the notes pages included, email me at Rich.Nass@ubm.com

Blogger

Rick, good reply to a complex question

Iron

More on my sources.  This is a webinar for Design News readers.  The specific topics for each day were developed by Design News, not any particular vendor.  DigiKey, which cosponsors this webinar, does not distribute any of the products mentioned.  If I took material from publication or vendor sites or documents, it was because the information was written and posted to be used in this fashion.  Some of these documents are 100 pages long.  I have tried to put the relevant information into my talks, not blindly copy material from user guides or handbooks.  Some of these documents are good expansions of my remarks.  I will post links to them on Friday.

Blogger

i realized a problem with usb on hp but never used gpib

Iron

@raghu - I use Python to create "proof of concept" before developing a full application as well as for general scripting.  I hadn't heard of PyVISA before yesterday, and despite a few installation problems, I was able to create a script to control some Agilent GPIB instruments within minutes.  I will definitely use it for future "quick and dirty" instrument controls/data logging.

Iron

Thanks Rick, Rich, and all.

Iron

Edb_vt: always wondered about HPIB. We had it available on almost everything we bought from Agilent or HP before that, but never got around to playing with it. I think it would have laid a solid groundwork for what we're learning right now.

Time to go, thanks to Rick and Rich for todays session. See all tomorrow.

Iron

what exactly is python used for?

Iron

Nice Presentation Rick

 

Iron

Not to be a National Instrument promoter, but they do have some excellent PDF documents on their web site explaining software testing... good expansion on what Rick has been talking about.

Nice presentation Rick

 

Iron

HP makes a "Teststand" (called something else) that runs with NI's Labview SW.

 

Iron
thanks rich for the class
Iron

Interesting presentation, Now I need to go back and hear the archives.

Iron

thanks for the presentation

Iron

Rick - do you this week's topic also applies to use with Python software for automated test?

Iron

I will get back to you on Python.

Blogger

signing off...let's see what tomorrow brings

Iron

@rholmes - even though NI has been mentioned many times, haven't seen any statement of using their resources for this presentation

Iron

I will post HTML pages with links to additonal resources on Friday.  I have used many sources, including a Design News blog, which I will also post.

Blogger

What about the big boys in the stand alone market. Like Tektronix or Anritsu?

Rick - do you this week's topic also applies to use with Python software for automated test?

Iron

He has mentioned National Instruments many times

Iron

Microsoft and National Instruments are two of the major vendors in this market.  There are many otherse.

Blogger

Fholmes: I think NI is the gorilla in the testing jungle. Haven't looked at Omega to see what they offer, but they're big in instrumentation

Only makes sense to not "reinvent the wheel"...

 

Rich, need to post that email address here in Chat (although I suspect it is probably available SOMEwhere here on the presentation page -- if the page is logically and professionally formatted, anyway)...

Platinum

Thanks both, till tomorrow

Iron

@rholmes - even though NI has been mentioned many times, haven't seen any statement of using their resources for this presentation

Iron

Thank you Rick and Rich both

Iron

THANKS RICK AND RICH. GREAT INFO.

Thanks Rick and Rich.

Iron

HPIB was originally developed by Hewlett Packard, this was converted into a standard, and became GPIB

Iron

Thank you Rick, Rich and Digikey

Iron

Great presentation Rick and Rich. Thanks a lot

Iron

Google "plagiarism"...

Iron
Thank you rick for today's lesson
Iron

He has mentioned National Instruments many times

Iron

Seems like ONE aspect of what I'm learning is that a test engineer is GOING to need to be able to evaluate "efficiency" in a custom test module. Any suggestions for doing that, in a conceptual framework that can be used across many custom environments?

 

SOUNDS like if I come back to the archived copy, and literally transcribe every tenth sentence, I can probably access all the original source materials. Not criticizing -- the ability to knowledgably aggregate pertinent tutorial sources is HUGELY valuable. Heh -- as is the ability to backtrack (as I described above) to find sources to gather peripheral info and access to expansion links.

Platinum

Thanks much Rick, Rich and DigiKey

Iron

kamjam@ engineers are focussed on getting it right at ant cost.. doesnt work with management.. for them cost IS a parameter in optimization function.

Iron

Thanks for today's lecture, Rick.

Iron

@Mr.E - it would be sat if the content of this presentation is just "lifted" from there...

Iron

@caa028 - good question for rick...it seems if the content of this presentation is coming directly from NI, then they shoulded be recognized...but I don't remember seeing any such NI recognition for these presentations

Iron

@flaredOne: I just Googled the term "Application Development Environment". That just sounded like a vender-specific variant of "Integrated Development Environment". Sure enough, one of the first hits turned up some of the exact words I was hearing over the webinar audio. Once we diverged, I decided he must have moved to another page, so I Googled the words he happened to be reading at the moment, which were "configuration manager such as max". Bingo! Another hit!

Iron

Rick,

What's the difference between HPIB and GPIB?

TIA

Iron

i've used microcontroller development boards such as the SX48 boards for quick and one-time test solutions. reuse the board with new software for the next challenge.

Iron

I agree cost is always a factor to management. How about satisfying your customer? Would you care about the cost?

 

Iron

@Rick - have you participated in generating the content you are presenting (literally it's coming from the page Mr.E referenced below)?
copy paste from there: "Programming Tools
Drivers can go one step beyond providing an easy-to-use API by adding tools to facilitate development by saving you time. I/O assistants are interactive tools for very rapidly creating a measurement or stimulus applications. An example of an I/O assistant is DAQ Assistant, which is part of the NI-DAQmx driver. DAQ Assistant presents a panel to the user for configuring common data acquisition parameters without programming. The combination of easy-to-use assistants and powerful programming environments is necessary to provide both rapid development and the capabilities to meet a breadth of application requirements."

Iron

sometimes, homebrew hardware or software for testing is usually the only option in small companies.

Iron

I am not against the home brew products at all, provided they are attaining the maximum efficiency

 

Iron

@Mr. E -- how/where did you find the text on www.ni.com you referenced?? If nothing else, I suspect I could capture fifteen consecutive words and google that string, probably finding EXACTLY the link -- IF he is reading from something similar (a National Instruments tutorial in this case).

Platinum

My experience in private sector is that cost is usually the driver for deciding on homebrew or the budget for commercial software or test instruments.

Iron

@kamjam - Cost is ALWAYS a factor (to management).

 

Iron

@Mr. E - yes it seems a lot of these 3 presentations have been read from some text. they also seem to have a lot of National Instruments overtones or backing....wish it was more vendor independant

Iron

I would like a copy of the edited slide also.

How would you distinguish upgrade and modification?

Iron

Sometime home brew products are not as efficient as compare to the commerical ones. I have been using them in the company but sometime there are limitations in the home brew. I think in development environment if you want to achieve the maximum output then cost is not a factor. What do you think?

 

Iron

@Mr. E - good catch!

Iron

Rick very nice webinar. 

Iron

Relatively most peices of software are not simple to integrate with measurement and control drivers. Wouldn't you say less general peices of software are more efficient?

Iron

Will have to catch the rest on archive - something just came up. See you tomorrow.

@kamjam, the choice for homebrew or commercial software usually comes down to cost and stability.

Iron

What I'm seeing is that a newbie test engineer is going to be floundering -- because without the experience which explains WHY all these functional blocks exist ("we've found by experience that THESE functions are repeated in almost ALL testing operations"), figuring out "main trunk" versus "occasional use branch" is a PITA.

 

Homebuilt versus commercial?? He explained that commercial generally packages all the "found from experience" architecture BUT requires custom modules for each unique DUT. Whereas homebuilt may focus too directly on "JUST doing the tests" without including all the housekeeping stuff...

Platinum

I agree with Rick using different ADE's for different environments to achieve the testing objectives.

Iron

The presenter is simply reading the text on http://www.ni.com/white-paper/3091/en

Iron

@richnass - Thanks!  Should have checked first.

How you will compare the home-built softwares with commerically available? Which is prefereable in terms of functionality

 

 

Iron

aaahhhh...the browser wars...brings back memories

Iron

How often is the modification required? Well, the more often the better, but I mean considering the costs?

Iron

@flaredOne I'm on Firefox and it works fine

Blogger

@tracyhayford Previous classes are all archived. Just click on the link for that day's class.

Blogger

everything is ok now, the first time I have had any problems with IE but able to recover fine

Iron

Just checking -- when your slide says "Device", I believe you are referring to "DUT" (Device under Test), right??

Platinum

If a remote test monitoring is needed, would this fall under user management?

 

Iron

(sorry -- "this stuff" = "these presentations")

Platinum

Hi Rick, Rich and all.

Iron

I've been finding that IE just doesn't work smoothly with this stuff -- Chrome has not yet glitched significantly.

Platinum

@jl..audio is started.

Iron

@Alaskaman66 - That was my product. I was part of the firmware team and longest engineer associated with it from development through obsolisence.

Application: calibration and production functional test of multiple families of low-volume, high-complexity industrial turbomachinery control system hardware.  Multiple communications and I/O types.

Iron

is the audio playing. I am stuck on a "page refresh" waiting on one item to download

Iron

Rdon Gas detection insturments...currently no new project.

Iron

Not working on any specific application -- looking MORE at the top-down (bottom up?) procedure for knowledgably structuring something which will work efficiently, trying to take advantage of "institutional experience" i.e. learning from OTHER'S experience.

 

"Software defined radio" actually is a fairly good analogy for a functional device which encompasses a functional "library" of hardware and software functionality -- designed to allow pick-and-choose to match/test against YOUR Device-Under-Test. 

Platinum

I missed the first two sessions.  Are they (will they be) available as recordings?

@Rich - nothing specific right now

Iron

hi evrybdy, hina frm pakistan 

Iron

Rich, Developer who does bench level integration testing using custom tools. Working to support test engineers with automation in mind.

Keep posting those applications

Blogger

Application: Mechanical press Flywheel brake monitor.

Iron

LevitonDave: that sounds right. We used it to align and test VHF and UHF handheld radios ( and base stations/repeaters.

Rick - I suspect there is more to it than you think. SDR uses generic hardware and custom software to define the modulation approaches and associated functionality. SDT is similar in that the functionality is defined to run on generic hardware and process with custom software. Did I miss something?

we manufacture guided wave radar level gauging systems. Manufacturing and repair testing is a current concern. R&D testing is usually the immediate need for advanced test equipment.

Iron

No specific project, just looking for future opportunities, mostly testing pressures and mechanical positioning.

Iron

Hello from Upstate New York.

Iron

No specific application at this time.

Iron
Application: nothing at moment, just general interest
Iron

Hi Rich..can you please type in the question..as part of the audio is missed.

Iron

Use for testing and validation

Iron

good afternoon all from sunny Toronto

Iron

I am building a Lunar Lander and Lunar Surface suit.

 

Iron

@Rich - telecom...

Iron

Application: Nothing specifically right now.

 

Iron

yep...lost talk radio got lost

Iron

@levitondave - software defined test is a test method and software defined radios is a product

Iron

Welocome...from SC after tain ...got Sunny afternoon

There was a hickup in the audio...

Iron

@slk - what is a 'cludd'

Iron

Is audio portion already started? Thanks,.

Iron

no sun, ... no transit.   just cluds.

Iron

Hey, all -- in before the "Lost Hope Radio" announcement this time!

Platinum

There is no audio today..

 

Iron

@AlaskaMan66 - Is teh communications tester the 8920?

 

Greetings from sunny STL!

Iron

Rick - Is there an analogy between software defined test and software defined radios?

Iron

Software defined radio (SDR) is not related to software-defined test, except that they both use software.

Blogger

@slk - how is it different?

LevitonDave: Thanks for the insight. I had to devote lots of time studying the manuals before using Agilent OTDR's, 8Ghz spectrum analyzers, deep memory O-scopes, and communication radio testers.

Be a whole lot simpler if one could set up all required tests with a software GUI.

@levitondave - no

Iron

The transit, Thought it an eclipse. It is told that my hometown Fairbanks, AK

was the international best point for observation. Ever seen the midnight sun?

+20 hrs of sunrise, and daylight far weeks, no darkness etc. Just prefect ...

Iron

Rick - Is there an analogy between software defined test and software defined radios?

hello Rick, thank you very much for staying so long yesterday on chat to answer questions. it was above and beyond

Iron

Thank you for your questions.  Some will take several vendors to answer.  I will get you answers, but they may not be in today's presentation.

Blogger

As an aerospace engineer how can I miss the Venus transition. You all lucky there who watched it!!

 

Iron

hello from sunny MIAMI

Hello from SoCal.  Did observe venus every hour or so from 3pm to sunset, using a telescope projecting on a poster.  Very cool.

Iron

Hello all; Goombi from Ohio; IT Administrator

Iron

it's great once you get here. dealing with the Xcross bronx is a nitemare.

Blogger

Missed the tranist here in Portlandia (did get some pics from local news that had cameras that were outside the clouds) :(

hello rich, hope your day is going well on long island

Iron

From yesterday's discussion (having worked with the team from Agilent that made the Cell Phone tester). The value proposition is testing thoughput by letting the instrument handle all the details and only serve up the results needed for QA/Compliance tracking. Not as flexible but very efficient when making millions of phones in a week.

@LevitonDave Got it. I'll make sure Rick sees this message. Thanks for the particiaption.

Blogger

Good afternoon folks.

Iron

@rruther2 - the transit of venus is where the planet venus passes between the earth and the sun. happened yesterday (and today?). will not occur for over another 100 years

Iron

Here's a more readable repost:

For Rick when he joins:

Can you address the performance issues between purpose build tests vs. software defined tests. For high volume testing this can be an issue.

Also can you discuss the limitations of software defined testing where there are custom/device specific tests in purpose built instruments and how they may impact test design approaches.

Good afternoon everyone!

Iron

Oops the system burped - should have only had one copy (sorry 'bout that chief)

good afternoon everyone

Iron

For Rick when he joins:

Can you address the performance issues between purpose build tests vs. software defined tests. For high volume testing this can be an issue.

Also can you discuss the limitations of software defined testing where there are custom/device specific tests in purpose built instruments and how they may impact test design approaches.

For Rick when he joins:

Can you address the performance issues between purpose build tests vs. software defined tests. For high volume testing this can be an issue.

Also can you discuss the limitations of software defined testing where there are custom/device specific tests in purpose built instruments and how they may impact test design approaches.

For Rick when he joins:

Can you address the performance issues between purpose build tests vs. software defined tests. For high volume testing this can be an issue.

Also can you discuss the limitations of software defined testing where there are custom/device specific tests in purpose built instruments and how they may impact test design approaches.

Hi folks. Raining here in Valdez. 50 degrees

@auto_tink - missed the transit of venus. was cloudy and thunder storms in dallas yesterday. need the rain

Iron

I saw it myself in Fairbanks. Lots of scientist from all over the world.

It would have been perfect if it were not for the weather.

I spent the day with people from Universities, NASA, Solar

Observatories, and people from all over the world, a sellout

crowd as the view was primo. I have a photo or two myself.

Iron

I'm in the main office in Manhasset today. That's Long Island for you non-NYers/

Blogger

Since we haven't started class yet I was wondering if anyone here watched the transit ov Venus yesterday?

Iron

Hi There Rick And Everyone. Its Sunny here in CA., at least the part I am in can't speak for the rest of the state.

Iron

Good morning Rich, Rick and all from overcast and rainy Edmonton.

Iron
Hello Rich I look forward to today's lecture
Iron
Hello Rich I look forward to today's lecture
Iron

Today session seems more informative than the previous two sessions. I will emphasis on real-life examples during the session. I want Rick to share/relate examples from his working experience. I attended "Systems testing and debugging" sessions on Digi-key. The series was very interesting because presenter used real-life examples of testing and debugging that he performed while working in HP. I hope Rick will take care of this in today's session. Thanks

 

Iron

I am ready for another exciting presentation from Rick

 

Iron

Don't forget to join our Digi-Key Continuing Education Center LinkedIn Group at http://linkd.in/yoNGeY

Blogger

The streaming audio player will appear on this web page when the show starts at 2pm eastern today. Note however that some companies block live audio streams. If when the show starts you don't hear any audio, try refreshing your browser.

Blogger

Click on "Today's Slide Deck" to download the slides for today's presentation.

Blogger

I hope you're ready for Part 3. It starts in about an hour.

Blogger


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