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Beth Stackpole
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Object of desire
Beth Stackpole   5/23/2012 7:05:07 AM
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There is definitely an allure and a mystique to the Ferrai brand. I rode in one once and it was an exhilarating experience. Nice job of providing background on the history of the company and the manufacturing and engineering processes to produce these cars. I'm wondering given the energy and expense Ferrai put into pulling together a sophisticated green production facility if they have plans to put any of that sustainability muscle into their car design. My guess is not because Ferrai owners likely care more about horsepower and performance.

naperlou
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Re: Object of desire
naperlou   5/23/2012 9:50:40 AM
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Sylvie, nice article. I have always been enamored of Ferraris.  I saw a Dino in  London when I was a teenager and it was really something.  Besides the beauty of the designs, the sophistication of the engines was always impressive.  As for Beth's question about eco-friendly cars, that depends.  I understand that in Formula 1 they are using electric boost (sort of a mild hybrid).  So, if it becomes something that is used in Formula 1, you should see it in a Ferrari.

KingDWS
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Gold
Re: Object of desire
KingDWS   5/23/2012 5:42:25 PM
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I'm still saving my lunch money for one :-) There was an older 1978 308 for sale in town for $22k! Problem was it was robins eg blue, just wasn't right for my cheap look at me mid life crisis.

naperlou
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Re: Object of desire
naperlou   5/23/2012 7:26:15 PM
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I definately want a 12 cylinder.  What really gets my attention is the Testa Rosa.  I want one.

Allezw
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Iron
Re: Object of desire
Allezw   5/24/2012 11:28:40 PM
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If memory serves well, the Testa Rosa was a four banger Ferrari sports car from the early fifties. The V8s are flat crank and shakers. That's the reason the four pipes on that bank in the illustration are joined instead of splitting and crossing over. There is no two-plane beat, either. You have to run a lot of pipes to get the same inline eight sound from a two-plane crank.

naperlou
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Re: Object of desire
naperlou   5/25/2012 8:51:52 AM
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Allezw, you are wrong there.  The Testa Rosa was built between 1984 and 1996.  It had a mid-engine flat 12 cylinder engine of 4.9 litres displacement. 

There was a race car from the late 50s to early 60s that was called the 250 Testa Rosa.  It had a 3L 12 cylinder engine.  This car won LeMans three times. 

Allezw
User Rank
Iron
Re: Object of desire
Allezw   5/25/2012 12:01:28 PM
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Perhaps I might have made the distinction more precise had I said the "FIRST" Testa Rossa was a four banger. It began as a two liter and expanded to over three liters before being superseded by the Dino v6. The later V12s automobiles, curiously, were Testarossas. Note the difference in the names.

naperlou
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Re: Object of desire
naperlou   5/25/2012 2:53:45 PM
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Allezw, I think you are thinking about another brand of car.  As far as I can tell the first Ferrari's were V12s.  The Dino was the first V6 (starting out at 2L), which was later enlarged to a 3L V8.  This is  the genesis of their current mid-engine line.

Allezw
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Iron
Re: Object of desire
Allezw   5/25/2012 6:36:59 PM
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The first design V12s were replaced in sports cars in about 1953 with an engine series based on their formula one engine; first four cylinders, then a six cylinder inline.

FYI --http://www.autoblog.com/2011/05/17/rare-four-cylinder-57-ferrari-testa-rossa-expected-to-top-4-mi/ 

 

naperlou
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Re: Object of desire
naperlou   5/23/2012 7:26:16 PM
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I definately want a 12 cylinder.  What really gets my attention is the Testa Rosa.  I want one.

KingDWS
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Gold
Re: Object of desire
KingDWS   5/23/2012 7:52:11 PM
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Yup something about a overhead cam v12 at full throttle. Funny thing is even their v8s sound pretty good. Maybe have to start saving other peoples lunch money as well. I'm quite willing to skip on the matching luggage for the 599 if this will get it sooner :-)

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: Object of desire
Charles Murray   5/23/2012 8:56:53 PM
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Maybe I missed it in the story, Beth, but I believe Ferrari is developing a 900-HP, V-12 hybrid. I don't know if that will be considered "sustainable'...

Beth Stackpole
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Re: Object of desire
Beth Stackpole   5/24/2012 7:37:18 AM
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A Ferrai hybrid--that's something to see. I can admire the beauty and history of the cars and while not a car enthusiast, I can see where the elegance and power of the engine design would be an allure. Still, the Ferrai and all of these out-of-reach (sorry guys) performance cars seem a little over done.

Mike the Bike
User Rank
Iron
Re: Object of desire
Mike the Bike   5/24/2012 10:25:59 AM
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The "hybrid" car you are referring to is the Enzo replacement I think. Some prototypes are due out early next year, or a little before that. The technology is supposed to be similar to the formula 1 KER's unit, but I can't comment on that. F1 (racing) cars use regenerative energy (KER's) to charge batteries, these can be discharged directly into the crankshaft via a motor generator unit to enhance the powewr for over taking, but only at a specific rate of discharge. On to the article. Alas the engine on the first page of the article is a V8 and not as labled a V12, also it's a formula 1 motor and not a road car engine as the title leads the reader to belive. Having said that, it's interesting to read an "outsiders" perception of what Ferrari is like. Oh and if you have to ask how much the new Enzo costs, you'll get the Rolls-Royce answer; "if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it."

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: Object of desire
Charles Murray   5/24/2012 7:53:02 PM
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You are correct, Mike The Bike. See below.

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/04/ferrari-flagship-hybrid/

 

Allezw
User Rank
Iron
Re: Object of desire
Allezw   5/24/2012 11:09:51 PM
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Mike: (Formerly Mike Hailwood in another life?) You're paraphrasing. It was John Pierp;oint Morgan resp;onding to a query about the upkeep cost of a yacht. And a Rolls Royce is actually cheaper than the greater lot of super cars. 

Mike the Bike
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Iron
Re: Object of desire
Mike the Bike   5/25/2012 2:51:59 AM
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Good day Allezw, The real mike Hailwood was a hero of mine and I followed him from the late, early 60's until his untimely death, but I also ride a Ducati and a H-D V Rod so I don't feel too bad about using the "name" . The Rolls-Royce phrase I used, was created long before "super cars" were born, it comes from the early days of Rolls-Royce, when they were quite likely the most expensive cars on the planet. You might say the Silver Ghost was a super car of it's time. Here's another "Rolls-Royce" story you might like. Have you ever heard of the Brough Superior Motor Cycle, well Brough used the term "The Rolls-Royce of Motor Cycles". Henry Royce (the engineer) sent a R-R person to inspect the bikes. Shortly after, R-R issued a statement, that they were happy for Brough to use the term. Can you imagine that now in the PC age, I can't. I think you missed the point of my reply really, I wanted to correct the misleading caption of the F1 engine.

Allezw
User Rank
Iron
Re: Object of desire
Allezw   5/25/2012 12:38:36 PM
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T.E. Lawrence wrote a stirring description of his bike also telling of the hand pump used to lubricate engine parts for the constant loss system. Interestingly, AMC, the company manufacturing the AJS, Sunbeam, and Matchless motorcycles, built the Brough-Superior V2 on a special line. They used the fork and blade connecting rod arrangement to avoid cylinder offset, among other detail differences from the AMC twins also used for the later Morgan trikes.

At the time of the Brough-Superior, before Lawrence put it forever into the history books, all motorcycles were hand built with specialists for each component and often a single worker responsible for the final assembly before it was tested and then sent on to the dealer or directly to the owner.

I believe Velocette was the last major manufacturer to retain that tradition.

Your bit on the F1 engine was clear enough. The tipoff for me was the exhaust pipes.

I started on Cushman scooters delivering papers. They ranged from single speed with the centrifigal clutch to the two-speed with the oversize tires. Had a '37 Indian Chief, a '47 Harley 'Glide, a '48 Harley Hummer, a '49 Indian Brave, the little Brit-style 440cc twin, a'51 AJS 500 single, a 53 Matchless 500 single, a '56 Matchless 650cc, '61 Matchless G50. The last remaining is a '63 CB77 Honda, still in the stable. Looking at a new India manufactured Royal Enfield. My 1959 Berkley used the 700cc twin, up from the Villiers triple two-stroke. 

 

Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: Object of desire
Charles Murray   5/25/2012 5:55:58 PM
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I like to see T.E. Lawrence being cited here, Allezw. It proves that Design News readers are a literate bunch.

Allezw
User Rank
Iron
Re: Object of desire
Allezw   5/25/2012 6:49:13 PM
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Indeed! Or express a wide variety of experience. It all depends on what topic comes up in these magazines.

Ever read any of the Ingersoll Rand Compressed Air trade magazines? They have covered everything from restoring a WWII 16" coastal defense rifle, to bees. There is only the magazine name on the front cover and company advertising on the inside and back cover.

Needless to say, some of the articles generate a lot of information from the knowledgeable readers.

 

PizzaEater
User Rank
Silver
Liquid nitrogen boils at minus 196 Celsius
PizzaEater   5/24/2012 10:28:56 AM
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I assume you meant the valve seat is cooled with liquid nitrogen to minus 196 Celsius.

kf2qd
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Liquid nitrogen boils at minus 196 Celsius
kf2qd   5/24/2012 11:44:50 AM
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And did you notice that the "volume " of the seat changes in MICRONs and the "volume" of the head changed in MM squared...

 

Actually it is a linear shrikage in each, with the hardened seats shrinking (in all dimensions) and the heated aluminum head expanding. Not an unusual practice when installing valve seats in any engine head, same process is used in cast iron heads also.

Allezw
User Rank
Iron
Thermal differentials for Interference fits
Allezw   5/24/2012 11:36:38 PM
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Wonderful thing about rings, such as a valve seat. They expand and contract circumferentially as well which makes such details easier to slip into an interference fit whether the the detail is heated or cooled depending on the application. A long rod will gain or lose more in length than a cube of the same volume.

bobjengr
User Rank
Platinum
Object of desire
bobjengr   5/29/2012 5:09:04 PM
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Sylvie—terrific article!  I certainly learned something today.   I had no idea their annual production was only 6,000 cars.  They obviously go for quality and not quantity.  Sadly enough, I read today the earthquake in Bologna has shut the factory for an undetermined period of time.  Let's hope there were no injuries or significant damage and they can get up and running again quickly.     Your description of their factory mirrors the efforts of VW here in my home town (Chattanooga, Tennessee).  VW has built a "green" production facility that is truly marvelous.  Again, great article.

Sylvie Barak
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Blogger
Re: Object of desire
Sylvie Barak   5/29/2012 5:29:06 PM
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Thank you! That means a lot to me! It was a piece i really enjoyed writing, so it's always nice to hear that people enjoyed reading it too.

I was also surprised that annual production was just 6000, but rarity increases value, so I guess there is incentive to keep it high quality, high cost.

Thanks again!

 

ABrantley
User Rank
Iron
The SOUND!
ABrantley   6/2/2012 10:09:31 AM
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We visited Maranello last fall on a trip through Italy, and what we were most impressed with was the sound of engines throughout the town. The mechanics will take cars out on the road to test drive them, so it's not uncommon to have one cruise by. Additionally, there's a place adjacent to the Ferrari museum where, for a fee, one can get "pre-flight instruction" on driving a Ferrari, then take one (accompanied by an experienced driver) out on the road.



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