HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  RESOURCE CENTER  |  INDUSTRIES
REGISTER   |   LOGIN   |   HELP
Page 1/2  >  >>
Critic
User Rank
Platinum
Re: First Sentence...
Critic   5/22/2012 11:16:16 PM
NO RATINGS
Sport:  no, not really.  Dysprosium raises the Hc, which helps with temperature, but it hurts Br, so energy product drops. If you want a high-flux magnet, leave the Dy out.  Neo magnets, even with lots (12%) of Dy, do NOT have great temperature performance.  SmCo, Alnico, and ceramic magnets all are capable of performing at higher temperatures than Neo magnets.  The advantages of Neo magnets are small size and low mass.

 

 

Sport
User Rank
Silver
Re: First Sentence...
Sport   5/22/2012 2:52:45 PM
NO RATINGS
The use of Dysprosium corrects this deficiency.

Critic
User Rank
Platinum
First Sentence...
Critic   5/22/2012 2:34:02 PM
NO RATINGS
Neodymium Iron Boron magnets offer high energy products, but the higher-energy versions do NOT retain their magnetism well at high temperatures (compared to other magnet types)!  Based on this information, the first sentence of this article is incorrect, and is probably based on the writer's lack of experience with Neo magnets.

SparkyWatt
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Relative cost?
SparkyWatt   5/17/2012 6:41:04 PM
NO RATINGS
Yes, I've noticed that different groups use terminology differently.  It results in no end of confusion.  That is why I took the trouble to clarify.  It is possible that people in your industry use the term "cogging" differently than the areas I have been around.

What can you do?  Language is organically grown and sprouts from many roots.

Sounds like the effect you are talking about comes from using a "soft" material for the motor's core.  The core becomes magnetized, and therefore "sees" the gaps between the poles.  When I took motor construction in 1980, that was considered a bad idea.  A soft material would usually increase the torque of the motor for a given geometry, but lower its efficiency (it increased the core losses) and causes that form of ripple.

Of course, today that would be a concern also because it increases the motor's electrical emissions.

I am not into SR motors, but my guess would be that (like other styles of motors) it is dependant on the "hardness" of the material used for the rotor.  A "hard" material would show very little effect.

And Ampex did make wonderful tape decks.

bdcst
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Relative cost?
bdcst   5/17/2012 5:20:10 PM
NO RATINGS
Terminology, cogging versus torque ripple.  Well...back in the early days of reel to reel audio tape recording Ampex was the pre-eminent manufacturer of tape decks.  They employed Bodine hysteresis synchronous motors to drive the tape deck capstan.  With a heavy flywheel as a low pass filter, both bearing noise and flutter could be reduced.  That style motor could be made to exhibit a much higher degree of tape playback flutter.  I suppose you could call it torque ripple since the effect was milder than slipping or skipping a pole.

If, while the capstan motor was energized, you changed its speed by switching windings, it would induce a temporary magnetization of the armature that would produce noticeable flutter.  Simply de-energizing the motor and re-energizing it would erase the slight ripple effect.

SparkyWatt
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Relative cost?
SparkyWatt   5/17/2012 1:27:52 PM
NO RATINGS
Do you mean "cogging" or "torque ripple"?  Torque ripple is an effect where the torque is reduced as the magnetic field moves from pole to pole in an AC motor or stepper motor or as a commutated motor switches windings.  It stems from the fact that the rotor doesn't see a uniform magnetic field as it rotates.  "Cogging" on the other hand is an effect commonly seen in stepper motors, but also appears in AC motors, where a motor under a heavy load slips back a full pole.  "Cogging" is a catastrophic failure, because in most cases onee it happens, it continues to happen.  The motor stops rotating and is subjected to an alternating torque of its full rated torque.  This is usually loud and often destructive.

I suspect that SR motors don't cog, because the switching follows the rotor, similar to brushless DC motors.  An overloaded motor would just slow down and stop switching.

I have no idea what their torque ripple performance is like.

bdcst
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Relative cost?
bdcst   5/17/2012 10:46:54 AM
NO RATINGS
I wonder how switched reluctance motors compare with other designs regarding cogging?  Where motion has to be fluid, cogging can add vibration and velocity errors, flutter.  This was an issue in the days of analog magnetic tape transport design.  But that era is long gone.

ChasChas
User Rank
Gold
Not out of the woods, yet.
ChasChas   5/17/2012 9:49:48 AM
NO RATINGS
 

Excellent engineering advice in this article, but it sure adds complexity to motor design - and engineering/prototyping/testing isn't free. Seems like many industries will still be forced to pay the higher price of REE. 

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: Excellent!
Jerry dycus   5/16/2012 7:50:04 PM
NO RATINGS
 

            I said this on the first article, we have used non REE motors, generators  for 140 yrs or so and could even be better without them as better control and far more starting torque and peak power, things REE's don't do well.

            Where is any mention of brushed motors like series, sep-ex, compound that ran the industural age?  These in many ways are superior especially in tractive uses like EV's as they can stand far more heat, thus make more peak power.  Add to that the controllers are 1/3 the cost and weight.

             Only in the last yr has AC come anywhere near being as cost effective as these and I still have to pay 100% more for the joy of AC.  That of course would raise the EV price by $2-3k and accepting lower starting power for that joy. 

              Another benefit is in smaller EV's the use of lower voltages lowering cell count, controller costs.

              The cost of this is brushes that need to be changed in 100k miles or so but likely the bearings will needed anyway in DC or more likely in AC,  so little extra cost in real life. 

               Improvements that don't do better at lower costs than past alternatives are not improvements.

                Now in small wind generators REE's are hard to beat. I know as I've tried and building the production prototype now for a home size 3kw cost effective unit.

            Luckily I've cut the needed REE's by 75% and if tests work out, 87.5% compared to the present competition.  It looks like I'll even beat the Chinese WG's  on price/proven  kw/mph and destory them in quality.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Excellent!
Charles Murray   5/16/2012 6:00:54 PM
NO RATINGS
Fantastic series, Kristin. You've provided in-depth information at a time when design engineers sorely need it.

Page 1/2  >  >>


Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
For 3D printing to make the jump from rapid prototyping to manufacturing, engineers will need to find easier ways to move products from their CAD screens to their printers.
Gigabit and PoE are two networking technologies moving ahead in tandem as industrial users power remote Ethernet devices such as IP security cameras at 1,000 Mbps over existing CAT5 cable.
When an artificial product is manufactured to match its real-world version, some qualities should be reviewed and discarded.
Joining porous metal to mating components for medical and life sciences applications can be accomplished in a variety of ways.
New versions of BASF's Ecovio line are both compostable and designed for either injection molding or thermoforming. These combinations are becoming more common for the single-use bioplastics used in food service and food packaging applications, but are still not widely available.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
5/30/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
5/29/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
6/25/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
6/27/2013 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York / 7:00 p.m. London
Blogs from Our Sponsors
From Dell / Intel®
New Paradigms in Design Work
Scott Hamilton, vertical market strategist for Dell Precision workstations, 5/2/2013    5
Early in my career, I worked as a draftsman and remember the days of drawing on vellum with numbered pencils and Mylar with plastic lead. This was a fun experience in the sense that I ...
From Dell / Intel®
Increased Workstation Performance Is as Easy as 'DPPO'
Trey Morton, Dell, 4/25/2013    2
I've been using workstations for more than 10 years and love finding ways to get more performance from my system. With demanding professional applications that require more power each ...
From Dell / Intel®
Taking Some of the Grit out of Manufacturing
Kirsten Billhardt, Manufacturing Industry Marketing Strategist, Dell, 3/26/2013    5
A lasting memory from my first job as an engineer in an auto assembly plant is standing on hard concrete at six in the morning, vending-machine coffee clutched in hand, listening to ...
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Jun 24 - 28, Design Your Own Android App
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3


DN Radio
Sponsored by
NEXT UPCOMING BROADCAST
For industrial control applications, or even a simple assembly line, that machine can go almost 24/7 without a break. But what happens when the task is a little more complex? That’s where the “smart” machine would come in. The smart machine is one that has some simple (or complex in some cases) processing capability to be able to adapt to changing conditions. Such machines are suited for a host of applications, including automotive, aerospace, defense, medical, computers and electronics, telecommunications, consumer goods, and so on. This radio show will show what’s possible with smart machines, and what tradeoffs need to be made to implement such a solution.
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Datasheets.com Parts Search

185 million searchable parts
(please enter a part number or hit search to begin)
Copyright © 2013 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service