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jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
No rant
jeffbiss   5/1/2012 1:47:52 PM
NO RATINGS
Where's the rant? Facts are facts. If you don't agree, then argue your point.

ChasChas
User Rank
Platinum
Re: That doesn't change physics
ChasChas   5/1/2012 1:37:58 PM
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Gotcha! Who's ranting now? You owe me one, Warren.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
That doesn't change physics
jeffbiss   5/1/2012 1:30:11 PM
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The Chinese have been appropriating our technology with our full approval (remember IBM selling Lenovo their PC business?) due in large part to our policies developed to increase profits for corporations. We're our own worst enemy, the Chinese simply take advantage of our lack of foresight and greed. Also, our colleges make money catering to foreign students and I doubt that they'd not send lobbyists to Congress if there were any such attempt to send Chinese students home.

But that doesn't change the fact that rare earth elements are, well, rare. And even though china did break trade agreements, the results of the ruling are a bit cloudy as discussed in Specialists in Rare Earths Say a Trade Case Against China May Be Too Late.

The fact is that REE in China are the property of the Chinese, and as they are their resource, they have a good argument as to controlling their export and we chose to send our technology to China because it brought a few well connected people more wealth. Perhaps we'd have more trade leverage had we not given China so much in the first place.

Maybe it's time to re-engineer our society to be far more efficient such that we don't require REE and conventional magnets can produce what we need. Oh, and reconsider our trade and business policies such that they don't benefit only a few. As far as I'm concerned this is all about sustainability.

ChasChas
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Give it a rest.
ChasChas   5/1/2012 12:57:57 PM
NO RATINGS
 

I can't speak for Warren, but in an earlier post, I mentioned that there are about 110,000 or more Chinese students here at any given time taking our technology to China. It would be fair to send these students home until China opens up thier rare earth markets again.

 

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: New Sources of Rare Earths
Rob Spiegel   5/1/2012 12:40:42 PM
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Good point, ChasChas. I would imagine a craft could be build in orbit, much like the space station was. Then rockets would only be necessary to ferry passengers back and forth to the craft. Getting the payload from the craft down to earth could be tricky.

cgosnell
User Rank
Silver
Re: Rare Earch Magnets
cgosnell   5/1/2012 12:26:06 PM
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Unless the speculator can take delivery of teh materials in question, I think that he cannot 'hoard' materials, but will predict the future pirce of an item.

Now the increase in cost to us (the USA) recently may really indicate the 'real' devaluation of the Dollar vs. the Yuan.

jeffbiss
User Rank
Gold
Give it a rest.
jeffbiss   5/1/2012 11:50:00 AM
NO RATINGS
Warren,

Come on, this is an engineering forum provided by an engineering magazine. There's really no use for your anti-government rants here.

The Principal Rare Earth Elements Deposits of the United States—A Summary of Domestic Deposits and a Global Perspective provides a discussion of the resources in North America, and they are not in large quantities.

Speculators do not stabilize prices, they create bubbles. Markets stabilize prices only when those bidding on the commodity have an actual stake in the commodity and not merely whether others will pay more for the commodity later than they did.

Jerry dycus
User Rank
Gold
Re: New ways of looking at an old problem
Jerry dycus   5/1/2012 11:45:12 AM
NO RATINGS
 

               Sorry but RE motors are not close to many times smaller than other types.  They won't be replaced by ferrite magnets but by far better tech like Telsa's and the EV-1's motors that use no RE and smaller than a similar RE motor.   No?

               So much hype and little substance here. 

              The article on UC's is far worse, just pure hype by the manufacturer.  I can't wait to see his response. It should be enlightening for all of us.

   

ChasChas
User Rank
Platinum
Re: New Sources of Rare Earths
ChasChas   5/1/2012 9:44:13 AM
NO RATINGS
 

Our missing link to successful space mining is that we have no space drive like all the science fiction crafts and what has been observed in "UFO's".  We need something to replace the rocket to break earth's gravity before real economic feasibility is here.

Where are we at on the carbon nanotube ribbon hooked to a geosynchronous satellite? 

warren@fourward.com
User Rank
Platinum
Rare Earch Magnets
warren@fourward.com   5/1/2012 9:39:24 AM
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As a user of rare-earth magnets I hear there are large quantities of the resources necessary here in the USA but for the cost of getting it out of the earth.  I guess the "rare" part is the permits, etc.


China broke international agreements in withholding this material from the world.  I think it is a brilliant maneuver to raise prices.  Saudi Arabia, et al, do it with oil.  I do it with my vast mental capacity and my stunning good looks.  So, the solution is an engineering one.  How can we get around China?  We got around the buggy whip cartel with the automobile.  We can find ways to extract it from our own soil effectively, safely, and cleanly (unless the government has another hidden agenda in agreements with China).  Or we can find substitutes.  Maybe there is a substance we can use like "I Can't Believe It's Not Neodymium!"


I don't know if I buy the "hoarding" excuse.  Speculators tend to stabilize prices.  I think dark-side politics are at play, Mr. Watson.

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