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Charles Murray
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Blogger
Re: EV's
Charles Murray   5/1/2012 8:12:24 PM
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I suppose "Cubanization" refers to the fact that people in Cuba drive old cars, if they drive cars at all, Absalom. Maybe there's a deeper meaning, but I'm not aware of it.

brett_cgb
User Rank
Iron
Re: What about Natural Gas?
brett_cgb   4/30/2012 1:56:00 PM
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Natural Gas fueled vehicles absolutely require natural gas to function - they can not use any other fuel. Same for gasoline and diesel fueled vehicles.

Plug-in electric vehicles (PEV) are powered by electricity generated by multiple sources (oil, gas, coal, hyrdo, nuke, wind, and solar).

Today, most electricity in the US is generated from natural gas, oil, coal, or nuke, but wind and solar sources are begining to come online.

Absalom
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Gold
Re: EV's
Absalom   4/29/2012 5:24:27 PM
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I've never heard the term "Cubanization". I wonder what its origin is?

I do like the idea of keeping all the best of the older cars on the road like the Road Runners, Firebirds, the big Broncos, Suburbans and, of course, my Dodge Ram.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: EV's
Charles Murray   4/26/2012 8:23:17 PM
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The phenomenon you aptly describe, Absalom, is a real concern among industry analysts. They call it the "Cubanization" of the market. They're afraid that people will hang onto their old cars instead of springing for new ones.

GlennA
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Gold
Re: What about Natural Gas?
GlennA   4/26/2012 3:26:34 PM
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Define 'subsidy'.  On-the-road gasoline has road taxes (vs. farm gasoline).  The natural gas for your residential furnace and water heater does not have road taxes.  So if you are not paying road taxes on the CNG fuel for your vehicle, is that not effectively a subsidy ?

Larry S.
User Rank
Iron
Re: What about Natural Gas?
Larry S.   4/26/2012 11:52:53 AM
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Actually, there are already companies manufacturing home refill 'stations' connected directly to the residential natural gas line - once again, without government subsidy!

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Still not quite ready for prime time...
Charles Murray   4/25/2012 6:04:47 PM
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I agree, dubues, driving a Tesla Roadster is an incredible experience. I need to add, however, that I didn't pay a penny to take the Roadster for a spin. And I can't afford to plunk down $109,000 to buy one.

GlennA
User Rank
Gold
Re: What about Natural Gas?
GlennA   4/25/2012 5:03:14 PM
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Compressed Natural Gas has a much lower energy density than gasoline.  And it requires (relatively) high pressure;  e.g. propane is a liquid at 70 F and about 200 psi.  So refilling a CNG tank requires a trained operator and specialized equipment vs. refilling a gasoline tank.  Propane was also used (briefly) as a motor vehicle fuel.  The relative scarceness of propane stations vs. gasoline stations, and having road taxes added, eventually killed the propane option.  The CNG fill station would probably be at the fleet yard only.

Larry S.
User Rank
Iron
What about Natural Gas?
Larry S.   4/25/2012 4:01:11 PM
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Plug in an electric for a re-charge and you likely are getting power from a coal or nuclear power plant and their related 'green' issues.

Natural gas seems to be increasingly abundant.  Many local fleets have operated on natural gas for years - seemingly without incident or government support!

What am I missing?

Ivan Kirkpatrick
User Rank
Platinum
Government Subsidies distort the market
Ivan Kirkpatrick   4/25/2012 10:09:56 AM
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Any kind of Government subsidy effectively distorts the markets.  This is especially true of late in the Wind Power business.  It is all but impossible to get a accurate picture of the cost of producing electric energy for the grid from wind power.

Ethanol subsidies have a similar effect just like milk price supports and any kind of government intervention.  Free market Capitalism works really well when it is Free, a real Market of competing products, and the profit motive drives the business.

Frequently the environmental impact is cited as a reason to perturb the Free Market.  this is incorrect.  Teh true cost of the effects on the environment must be included in the product cost.

Imagine an electric car with the performance of a muscle car, the best energy efficiency and the best environmental impact.  There is almost zero chance a product like that can emerge from our current system of subsidies and big corporations trying to maintain their status quo and huge investments in infrastructure.

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