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FrankWye
User Rank
Iron
Re: Hybrid Loyalty
FrankWye   4/20/2012 9:01:11 PM
NO RATINGS
Rigby - Just a little more history.

According to the Torah, the period of the three Patriarchs has been placed shortly after 2,000 BC,[36] and the first Kingdom of Israel was established around 1100 BC. Subsequent Israelite kingdoms and states ruled intermittently over the next four hundred years, and are known from various extra-biblical sources.[37][38][39][40]

Between the fall of the northern Kingdom of Israel in 722 BC and the Muslim conquests of the 7th century AD (a period of over 1500 years), the region came under Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Sassanid, and Byzantine rule.[41][42] Jewish presence in the region significantly dwindled after the failure of the Bar Kokhba revolt against the Roman Empire in 132 AD.[43] Nevertheless, there was a continuous small Jewish presence and Galilee became its religious center.[44][45] The Mishnah and part of the Talmud, central Jewish texts, were composed during the 2nd to 4th centuries AD in Tiberias and Jerusalem.[46] In 635 AD, the region, including Jerusalem, was conquered by the Arabs and was to remain under Muslim control for the next 1300 years.[47] Control of the region transferred between the Umayyads,[47] Abbasids,[47] and Crusaders throughout the next six centuries,[47] before being conquered by the Mamluk Sultanate, in 1260.[48] In 1516, the region was conquered by the Ottoman Empire, and remained under Turkish rule until the 20th century.[48]

After the Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492, some communities settled in Palestine.[53] Various migrations to Palestine occurred over the centuries including 40,000 between 1904-14. Austro-Hungarian journalist Theodor Herzl is credited with founding political Zionism,[59] a movement which sought to establish a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, by elevating the Jewish Question to the international plane.[60] In 1896, Herzl published Der Judenstaat (The State of the Jews), offering his vision of a future Jewish state.

During World War I, British Foreign Secretary Arthur Balfour sent a letter that stated:[64]

His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."[65]

The British conquered Palestine in 1917. Arab opposition to British rule and Jewish immigration led to the 1920 Palestine riots. In 1922, the League of Nations granted Britain a mandate over Palestine under terms similar to the Balfour Declaration.[67] The population of the area at this time was predominantly Arab and Muslim, with Jews accounting for about 11% of the population.[68]

Finally, the rise of Nazism and the increasing persecution of Jews in the 1930s led to the Fifth Aliyah, with an influx of a quarter of a million Jews. This was a major cause of the Arab revolt of 1936–1939 and led the British to introduce restrictions on Jewish immigration to Palestine with the White Paper of 1939. With countries around the world turning away Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust, a clandestine movement known as Aliyah Bet was organized to bring Jews to Palestine.[58] By the end of World War II, the Jewish population of Palestine had increased to 33% of the total population.[69


After World War II, Britain found itself in fierce conflict with the Jewish community, and there was an armed struggle against British rule.[70] At the same time, thousands of Jewish Holocaust survivors and refugees from Europe sought a new life in Palestine, but were turned away or rounded up and placed in detention camps by the British. In 1947, the British government announced it would withdraw from the Mandate of Palestine, stating it was unable to arrive at a solution acceptable to both Arabs and Jews.[71] A plan was proposed to replace the British Mandate with "Independent Arab and Jewish States" and a "Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem" administered by the United Nations. On 29 November 1947 the General Assembly adopted a resolution recommending the adoption and implementation of the Plan of Partition with Economic Union as Resolution 181 (II).[72]


 

Kevin
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Why Hybrids aren't selling now
Kevin   4/20/2012 8:59:04 PM
NO RATINGS
Greg -

Yeah, I think the Livermore graph is really insightful.  I'm not quite following your first impressions on renewables, however. 

The BIOFUELS are nearly 100% corn-ethanol (as mandated by the US Govt. as a gasoline addiive).  Corn is probably the least-favorable biofuel source around, but with all the subsidies, etc. it is apparently profitable.

Hydro power is fantastically green, but is not being expanded in the USA because reportedly almost all good potential sites have been built already.

Nukes aren't really renewable...and have their own highly controversial issues.  However, they ARE carbon-free.

That leaves solar, wind, geothermal - totaling 2.2% of electric grid share.  Wish it were more...Also, this cannot rise to over, say, 25% until a breakthrough in mass energy storage, due to the destabilizing effect on the grid of the variability of renewable power.  Of course, if we were to produce a synthetic chemical fuel (ammonia, anyone?) from the renewable energy - then the grid would not have to buffer it all, and we would be able to use the fuel like we conveniently use fuels now - in cars, airplanes, ships, etc. 

One thing that the chart does NOT include is the massive amount of natural gas that is converted to nitrogen fertilizers, and also the USA imports a lot of foreign fertilizer.  I need to investigate the relative energy content equivalency...but I wouldn't be surprised if it is similar to the total amount of natural gas burned as fuel.

Kevin

FrankWye
User Rank
Iron
Re: Hybrid Loyalty
FrankWye   4/20/2012 7:44:33 PM
NO RATINGS
Notice I said "Country" not "region". There is a difference.

Rigby5
User Rank
Gold
Re: Hybrid Loyalty
Rigby5   4/20/2012 7:43:13 PM
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FrankWye :  Wrong.   There has always been a Palestine.  Not only did Mark Twain write about Palestine in "Innocents Abroad", but the Philistines, Pelesh, Akkadians, Phoneicians, etc., go back thousands of years before Judea.  It is the Romans who created Judea, not Palestine.  And no, there were no Iraqis associated with Saddam who helped any terrorists.  Abu Nidal did live in Iraq, but only because the US told Saddam to let him live there.  Remember your history, the Hebrew tribes massacring Jericho?  Those were Palestinians they slaughtered.  But there were still alway over 75% Palestinians in that general area we now call Israel.

Rigby5
User Rank
Gold
Re: Hybrid Loyalty
Rigby5   4/20/2012 7:35:45 PM
NO RATINGS
jijoh123 : No, I normally keep a car for more than 16 years.  I just recently upgraded from an 1988 VW GTI.  I was still running great and used no oil, but the interior was getting ratty.  That is 24 years.  And a hybrid should last longer than that.

bwilson4web
User Rank
Gold
Re: Consumers not Accepting GREEN Marketing at Face Value
bwilson4web   4/20/2012 6:43:53 PM
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". . . why the other hybrids (but not the Prius) have such poor loyalty."

Failure to "manage user expectations" comes to mind. With the exception of Honda, the other hybrid vendors seem to think the word spelled "H", "Y", "B", "R", "I", "D" is enough to mitigate the sting of paying the gas bill. GM certainly thought that was all they had to do ... put the word "hybrid" on the doors and body.

IMHO the problem is non-Toyota hybrids are only getting mid-30s MPG. The owners probably thought they'd get Prius performance or at least mid-40s MPG. I sympathize with their angst but have no sympathy for their failure to perform "due diligence."

Although I didn't buy one, the Hyundai "bluemotion" appears to be headed to the same boneyard as the GM 'two-mode' transmissions . . . another over promised, under performing technology.

Hybrid 'pretenders' have only themselves to blame as they've never realized the Prius made the word "hybrid" a performance spec that they continue to screw-up.

The only real disappointment has been Honda. Some of their owners are enthusiastic but the Hondas are really built for Japanese-style bodies . . . not the type found in the USA.

Bob Wilson

bwilson4web
User Rank
Gold
Re: Towing with a Prius ?
bwilson4web   4/20/2012 6:24:23 PM
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A warranty has value which is another reason why our first Prius was used and I bought the Toyota shop manuals before I picked it up. I had always planned to go 'self-maintenance'. But that was nearly seven years ago and lot of applied study. Much to my surprise, it became my hobby.

So when we got my wife's car, I didn't run out for the trailer hitch. It was only after I bought the airplane that I needed a trailer for the plane and a tow vehicle. So I looked at the options: (1) rent, (2) Coachman RV, and (3) Prius.

Every rental cost came in at $800-900 dollars. The Coachman gets ~8 MPG and that top heavy, nearly blind box is really not something I wanted to drive. We had two Prius and I tested them both. The 1.8L won hands down on handling, safety, and efficiency. Testing and the tow proved it out but I have uncommon Prius history and the instruments needed to manage the risks.

Bob Wilson

warren@fourward.com
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Consumers not Accepting GREEN Marketing at Face Value
warren@fourward.com   4/20/2012 6:07:38 PM
NO RATINGS
Well, if anyone can pull it off, the Japanese can.

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Consumers not Accepting GREEN Marketing at Face Value
Charles Murray   4/20/2012 6:03:34 PM
NO RATINGS
I think they will get there, arren. The Prius already has big sales numbers. The head-scatcher for me is why the other hybrids (but not the Prius) have such poor loyalty.

warren@fourward.com
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Consumers not Accepting GREEN Marketing at Face Value
warren@fourward.com   4/20/2012 5:42:15 PM
NO RATINGS
Just another example of the government trying to tell the market where the money is.  When hybrids are affordable, efficient, reliable, practical, and nice-looking, the public will buy them.  So far they ain't! 

We need better reasons than Uncle Sam says to buy them.  There is a not more engineering that needs to go into them first.

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