HOME  |  NEWS  |  BLOGS  |  MESSAGES  |  FEATURES  |  VIDEOS  |  WEBINARS  |  INDUSTRIES  |  FOCUS ON FUNDAMENTALS
  |  REGISTER  |  LOGIN  |  HELP
Comments
View Comments: Threaded|Newest First|Oldest First
Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Cloud focus samrt move
Rob Spiegel   4/13/2012 9:45:05 AM
NO RATINGS

While we might question whether mobile and social media will gain much traction in CAD, cloud has to be a no-brainer. As the software becomes more sophisticated the ability to move files back and forth becomes increasingly difficult. So why move the files? Sharing files that have a single residency (in the cloud) makes a lot of sense. 

Charles Murray
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Cloud focus samrt move
Charles Murray   4/13/2012 6:18:00 PM
NO RATINGS
I agree, Rob. Bass hits it on the head when he says that the old line, "I'll get that file to you when I get back to the office" will be outmoded, if it isn't already.

Rob Spiegel
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Cloud focus samrt move
Rob Spiegel   4/16/2012 11:33:56 AM
NO RATINGS
Yes, Chuck, it's good to leave that saying behind. The other one hat comes up so often is that the file is too large so send by email. Even ftp sites now won't take large files, and Dropbox has limitations unless you pay a monthly fee. The cloud really is the answer to a lot of this.

Jack Rupert, PE
User Rank
Platinum
Security Models
Jack Rupert, PE   4/15/2012 3:23:19 PM
NO RATINGS
Just wondering if Autodesk or others have options for various security models that their customers would use.  While I don't doubt that they have taken steps to make sure access is secure, I've been surprised by the number of companies that have taken things well beyond usual "remote" authenticatons, such as the inability to even access the company's data without software installed on a PC that was solely issued by the company (i.e., no working form home on your own hardware, even).

tekochip
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Security Models
tekochip   4/15/2012 6:41:30 PM
NO RATINGS
Security would be the major issue on several levels. I worked at one place that tightly controlled all Internet activity and I can see how this would be a major problem for them, as well as the bandwidth needed. There would be concerns about how well the company's IP is backed up, how backups can be accessed, how controlled the access to the IP is, what happens when an employee leaves the company, how to control file sharing with others. This one would be tough to do in the cloud, but it sure is tempting to push all that horsepower off onto somebody else's computer.


TJ McDermott
User Rank
Blogger
COST models
TJ McDermott   4/16/2012 12:52:39 AM
NO RATINGS
The security aspect has been discussed already, so let's cover cost now.  I don't mean the cost of the Autodesk software, nor even of the tablet hardware.

I'm talking about the cost of the bandwidth.  How fast are we going to burn through the 2gb limits that the wireless companies have most commonly imposed?  Or, WORSE, if you exceed your monthly budget, your access is throttled?

At the same time Autodesk is pushing the cloud, it is also pushing 3D software like Inventor.  3D files are NOT as small as 2D AutoCAD files.  Even some of the more complicated, many-layered building architecture 2D files (the ones with each service defined on a separate layer) can be 20mb or greater.  It would not take long to hit that 2gb monthly limit.

We are not yet at the point where cloud computing is secure AND no longer cost-prohibitive.

AT&T even tries to double-dip its customers by charging for the data AND tethering (using your smartphone as a modem for your computer).  No, until we see some better bandwidth options, I see problems with mobile cloud computing.

 

Beth Stackpole
User Rank
Blogger
Re: COST models
Beth Stackpole   4/16/2012 7:04:59 AM
NO RATINGS
TJ: The way Autodesk is pursuing a cloud strategy appears to address some of your concerns about bandwidth. The main engineering repository or PDM (Product Data Management) platform is not being offered in the cloud. Autodesk Vault, as it's called, remains a traditional, behind-the-firewall type of application with the requisite security options and without reliance on Internet bandwidth for sharing files.

The cloud-based tools, PLM 360, and some of Autodesk's other cloud offerings leverage the cloud for collaboration and for heavy-duty, scalable compute power. CAD files that are shared via the cloud are lightweight versions of the full-blown model, so they can be visualized and marked up, but they are not the full geometric representation.

As for the different security options others raise, that I'm not sure about. Sorry.

ChasChas
User Rank
Platinum
Re: COST models
ChasChas   4/16/2012 11:51:06 AM
NO RATINGS
 

Interesting.  I worry about "too many cooks" wasting valuable time, but it's good that only the engineers can change what is in the vault.

There is nothing I hate worst than justifying my design to someone who doesn't know a thing about it - especially when it is still "work in process".

Beth Stackpole
User Rank
Blogger
Re: COST models
Beth Stackpole   4/17/2012 8:10:35 AM
NO RATINGS
@ChasChas: I feel the same way about my stories <grin!>

ChasChas
User Rank
Platinum
Re: COST models
ChasChas   4/17/2012 8:51:38 AM
NO RATINGS
 

Beth, your articles are fine, the stuff you have to write about is work in process and subject to "cooks".

This cloud should work well for customized engineering, but it may have it's problems with NEW IDEAS that may well turn out to be valuable intellectual properties. Would this cloud be considered "publishng" in a legal sense? How about if it's a BIG cloud?

 

tekochip
User Rank
Platinum
Re: COST models
tekochip   4/16/2012 7:13:21 PM
NO RATINGS
Beth, so you're saying that all of the files remain local and only the application is in the cloud?

Beth Stackpole
User Rank
Blogger
Re: COST models
Beth Stackpole   4/17/2012 8:13:47 AM
NO RATINGS
@Tekochip: That is my understanding with Autodesk's approach, which they are touting as a different spin on all this. While simulation makes perfect sense to take advantage of the pay-as-you-go, scalability benefits of the cloud, PLM and CAD have been questionable because of the IP, bandwidth, security, etc. concerns you all have raised in this post. So Autodesk's take is keep the data management/workflow/respository where they've always been (behind the firewall) and put the collaboration/visualization/project management apps up in the cloud where the benefits of the cloud's easy accessibility have more impact.

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
Betting on a "solid???" cloud
William K.   4/16/2012 10:48:38 PM
NO RATINGS
The issue of bandwidth is certainly a good point to consider. And while small electrical circuit drawings are only a hundred K or so, a 3d rendered detail could be several Megs. Mow pass that through your smartphone. And if something can't wait, that is what an assistant is for, to copy things from the secure vault to the FTP site for the other party to grab it. 

The problem with clouds is that they are just not very solid, and i all probability will never be very solid. And I am certain that data stored in a cloud will be hacked any day now, and that will be the start of some real excitement. Really, the entire cloud fad is ripe for some very unfortunate unintended consequences, which will probably look a lot like lost or corrupted data.

Beth Stackpole
User Rank
Blogger
Re: Betting on a "solid???" cloud
Beth Stackpole   4/17/2012 8:18:36 AM
NO RATINGS
@WilliamK: While I think there will and have been issues of hacking around the cloud, I think it's short sighted to see this as a fad. This is a fundamental shift in how computing power is delivered and IT shops across every industry and really at every size are gearing up for making the shift, at least for some aspect of their computing infrastructure. In some ways, this is just a shift back to the old days of mainframe and terminal-based computing, albeit with the Internet as the connection mechanism. So yes, there is work to be done regarding security, but not enough work that will make this a passing fad (at least in my view).

Kevin
User Rank
Platinum
Re: Betting on a "solid???" cloud
Kevin   4/17/2012 1:03:48 PM
NO RATINGS
I'm an early adopter and enthusiast of technology, yet I remain extremely skeptical of the massive amount of hype around the CLOUD COMPUTING buzzword.  Most of the papers I've read about the benefits of the CLOUD are based on CLOUDY thinking! (pun intended).  While I don't have a working crystal ball (and noone else does either), I believe there is a good chance that this big wave of CLOUD COMPUTING is indeed only a fad.

I have yet to see a clear, concise outline of the tangible benefits of the CLOUD paradigm.  OK...so I understand that file sharing is easier - but there are many other (much simpler and safer) conventional ways to implement equivalent functionality:

Check out gotomyPC.com, and also the Seagate Goflex external hard drive. 

The first item is software let's me access my work computer from home (or anywhere) get data and even run programs.  I can access via any external device: smartphone, tablet, notebook, etc.  Cost is $10/month (personal) or $20/month (business workgroup, up to 50 users).

 The second item is primarily an external hard drive with its own internal server.  It automates backing up my PC's, but also has a separate secure file area that can be accessed (via password) from ANYONE on the internet (including myself).  Cost is $99 - ~$300 one-time fee depending on capacity.

Lastly, I believe that human nature is that we prefer to have personal control of our critical data and not out there in a fuzzy CLOUD, managed by someone else.  The privacy and security concerns are real.  Since computing power, storage capacity, and connection bandwidth has become huge, inexpensive and ubiquitous - why do we need to start putting all our data and even software programs on someone else's server ?  I don't see the benefit, as long as easy access and data exchange can be supported (such as by the 2 examples above).  OK...I see some benefits for smartphones and tablets where computing power is still limited....but that will decrease over time, and with programs like gotomyPC you can leverage your own desktop computer.

Overall, I see the huge storm of CLOUD hype as a push for the large IT companies of trying to extract more money from customers, since once you opt for THEIR cloud, you are "locked-in" to their system and pay THEM a subscription fee and also pay them for your app's in the CLOUD.

Just my contrarian opinion....

Kevin

William K.
User Rank
Platinum
cloud computing: Ina fog???
William K.   4/17/2012 3:54:01 PM
NO RATINGS
Kevin, you are certainly correct about the other methods. BUt let us not forget the FTP sites. (File Transfer Protocol), which have been in use for several years. My one employer had such a site available and it was geat for passing large cad files to our group in China, and for sending huge balls of data home for analysis from the proving grounds. No, it was not super convenient, BUT it was both reliable and fairly secure. Beyond that, it was quite stable, which is a valuable property for data handling software to have. 

Kevin
User Rank
Platinum
Re: cloud computing: Ina fog???
Kevin   4/17/2012 4:44:41 PM
NO RATINGS
William K,

Yes you're right!  I should have included FTP.  I've used that method for 15-20 years. 

As you mention - it's not the most convenient, but works OK.

The Seagate GoFlex drive is "essentially" a personal / workgroup FTP device, but with a friendlier front-end software that works with any browser.

What's unique about gotomyPC is that you can also RUN PROGRAMS on your desktop computer remotely...it is as if you were sitting at your desk.  This is actually closer to the CLOUD concept, since it does more than just allowing file transfer.

I'm old enough that I've used shared (Hazeltine) terminals on a single (VAX) minicomputer, then seen the explosion of PC computing, then the Internet with servers, then smartphones and tablets and now the new CLOUD paradigm wants to go back to the first step...but with the internet + wireless connections instead of wires to the "terminals".  I see a few feeble advantages (centralized program management and file backup)...but fail to understand why the CLOUD is supposed to be the "next big thing".

If someone out there can lucidly explain the tangible benefits of "the CLOUD" - I'd love to hear it (I'm more open-minded than it might sound like)...but have not heard anything compelling to date.

cheers,

Kevin

Beth Stackpole
User Rank
Blogger
Re: cloud computing: Ina fog???
Beth Stackpole   4/18/2012 6:56:11 AM
NO RATINGS
@Kevin

Your points are well taken and in the cases where an individual makes the decision about what kind of computing paradigm, then yes, perhaps they might choose a traditional method because they want control over their data and applications. The reality is, however, that the cloud computing model is primarily being driven by upper management and IT groups who see real cost savings and scalability benefits as opposed to building out expensive data centers and then having to invest in the staff and resources to run them. The cloud model also has benefits for companies with dispersed groups all over the world due to the ease of IT administration and as you all noted, the ease of collaboration.

I once again have to argue that I don't think this is a passing fad. I will concede that the cloud model isn't a fit for every organization and for every type of application--hence the rise of what they're calling hybrid clouds which combine private data centers with what's universally considered cloud-based software. So maybe some of the hardcore engineering data management and CAD applications aren't the best fit as they stand today. But I wouldn't rule it out so quickly. As engineers, you know how quickly innovators can address a pain point.

Cadman-LT
User Rank
Platinum
Not sold
Cadman-LT   5/7/2012 2:45:56 AM
NO RATINGS
I am not sold on the cloud in any way. Security being a major factor. Most engineering firms have a set way to transfer files and collaborate already, without the cloud. For all of us to just drop our ways and go to the cloud seems unlikely and I for one won't. Maybe it's a trust issue I have, but I like knowing how and where my data is stored and how it can be accessed...without the cloud.



Partner Zone
Latest Analysis
Hacking has a long history in the movies, beginning with Tron and War Games and continuing through The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
In a move that strengthens its 3D design business, Stratasys continued a 15-month buying spree this week by announcing its plan to acquire GrabCAD, a provider of a cloud-based collaboration environment for engineers.
Feature-advantage-benefit could help engineers in how we approach design problems, how we sell our ideas to management, and how we market ourselves when it comes to jobs.
Many diverse markets take advantage of semiconductor IP; so many that no one can recite the entire list without leaving off several. So why do we track all the vertical markets? They all have a unique set of requirements and value attributes differently. One major vertical market segment is automotive.
Adam Berger hacked a computer keyboard into a mini key-tar to play with his band.
More:Blogs|News
Design News Webinar Series
9/10/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
7/23/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
7/17/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
6/25/2014 11:00 a.m. California / 2:00 p.m. New York
Quick Poll
The Continuing Education Center offers engineers an entirely new way to get the education they need to formulate next-generation solutions.
Sep 22 - 26, MCU Software Development A Step-by-Step Guide (Using a Real Eval Board)
SEMESTERS: 1  |  2  |  3  |  4  |  5  |  6


Focus on Fundamentals consists of 45-minute on-line classes that cover a host of technologies. You learn without leaving the comfort of your desk. All classes are taught by subject-matter experts and all are archived. So if you can't attend live, attend at your convenience.
Next Class: September 30 - October 2
Sponsored by Altera
Learn More   |   Login   |   Archived Classes
Twitter Feed
Design News Twitter Feed
Like Us on Facebook

Sponsored Content

Technology Marketplace

Copyright © 2014 UBM Canon, A UBM company, All rights reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service